Quick! Which one is the planet and which one is the monkey?*If you got that right then you must be smarter than comic book buyers in the Washington DC metropolitan area -- or, at least, smarter than SOME PEOPLE think those comic book buyers are.
My comic book store and Devon's got a letter from the attorney from some place called "Big Planet Comics", which says,
"It has come to our attention that you are using the unregistered trade name of 'Big Monkey Comics' as a name for your business. We believe that your use of the name has caused, and will cause, confusion among comic book consumers and will dilute the registered servicemark and good will held by Mr. Pollack [editor's note: he owns Big Planet, ya see..] and the various Big Planet Comic stores. This is especially true given the design of your logo, which seeks to emulate the overall feel and impression of the 'Big Planet Comics' registered mark. Please cease and desist all use of the name and contact me at your earliest convenience to discuss this issue and what steps must be taken to resolve it permanently."
To which I can only say what any comic book reader would: Gosh!
Actually, our tradename is registered, but I think that's beside the point. Personally, I think most comic book consumers know the difference between a monkey and planet. You almost have to in order to read comics. Clark Kent, for example, does not work at the Daily Monkey, nor does he come from the doomed exploding monkey of Krypton. Similarly, Mogo and Ego are not monkeys, but Beppo and Koko are.
For my part, I just want to assure the public that there is nothing that could interest me LESS than emulating the overall feel and impression of "Big Planet Comics". Please do not confuse it with Big Monkey Comics.
As for diluting good will.... Well. I think Mr. Pollack seems to have that covered already.
* Planet on left; monkey on right.
52 comments:
Wait - I don't get it.
Do they have some other trademark image that actually resembles the Big Monkey logo?
Or are they actually claiming that they have some kind of claim on the words "Big" and "Comics" used in conjunction with some intervening noun?
I know trademark law tends toward the stupid sometimes, but that just seems like an overly stupid claim. At least your competitors are only sending lawyers and not supervillains to trash the store or something.
"but that just seems like an overly stupid claim."
Weird, huh?
Or are they actually claiming that they have some kind of claim on the words "Big" and "Comics" used in conjunction with some intervening noun?
Quite a claim, isn't it?
This hurts. I was a regular customer at their Vienna store for the three years I lived in the DC area and none of the guys who worked there seemed dumb enough to go in for something like this. Chuh.
I hear ya. In fact, I, too, used to be a customer of theirs.
I, too, am disappointed.
In what way, shape or form does your logo copy the "overall feel and impression" of their logo? Theirs is an exploding planet. Yours is a monkey. I'm baffled.
Throw in a slip-and-fall accident and this would be perfect
Please don't give them any ideas....
I've been confused since you decided to rename Beyond Another Universe to Big Planet Comic Monkeys.
Stop diluting my good will, Big Scip!
So, Scip, did you use a cross-cut shredder on the letter, or just wad it up in a ball to sell as your own origami boulder?
Good luck with this nuisance.
Reminds me of when the Marx Brothers announced they were making a movie called "A Night In Casablanca". Warner Brothers fired off a lawyer's letter forbidding them from using the name "Casablanca" because they had already made a film by that name. Groucho sent back a letter informing the Warner Brothers that the Marx Brothers had been in show business longer than they had and forbidding them from using the name "Brothers" again.
It stopped all legal action. Unfortunately, "A Night In Casablanca" stank.
I think Big Planet also owns all rights to crappy web design, so Big Monkey is safe there.
Scipio- please be careful. As frivolous as this potential lawsuit is, a friend of mine lost his business over having one noun and one article the same as a well-known coffee company. He had a coffee shop in Vermont called "The Perfect Drop." Maxwell House (slogan: "good to the last drop") sued, and won. I can't picture any reasonable person ruling against my friend's shop, but it happened.
On a serious note and addressing Mike's concern, let me share my knowledge of the law from my dating of court employees.
The biggest mistake people take in regards to court cases is the idea that the Judge will look at both sides and pick the one who is morally right, or the common sense approach. The Judge is more like a game referee where he listens to the lawyers play the Law Game and he calls when things are out of bounds, illegal touching or action after the whistle.
The saddest thing a Judge sees is when people go in without a lawyer excepting the Judge to rule in their favor as soon as they hear their moral side of the story. The Judge is bound by the laws to not give a rip and simply make calls based on the arguements that are presented by lawyers. I imagine in the Case of the Perfect Drop, Maxwell had some awesome lawyers with even more awesome arguments.
Personally, I hope Big Planet comes to their senses before the ghost of Vibe pays a visit to their store.
You could offer to change the name to "Smarter Planet Comics".
Wait a minute, all these months I've been visiting this site and it ISN'T Big Planet comics?!?!
I say 'fie' to you sir and good day.
Ah, the whiff of panic. The wild actions of a desperate business. Lovely.
I'm a longtime patron of Big Planet's store in Vienna, and it's a fine shop, but this nonsense is putting me off my feed. The old owner was a good guy. I don't know the new owner.
My only problem with Big Monkey Comics is the dang parking. Georgetown is the fourth circle of parking hell, and the Metro doesn't stop anywhere nearby.
Big Monkey is a lot closer to my place than Vienna, and it too is a fine shop. Scipio, if you can give me a hint where semi-close parking could be found, I'll make the switch.
"Big Planet." "Big Monkey." There has to be a good lawyer-and-"Planet of the Apes" joke here.
--"Get your stinking tort off me, you damn dirty ape?"
--"Now! Litigate like apes!"
--"Frivolous lawsuits with intent to intimidate are against Ape Law."
Okay, maybe there isn't.
Scipio, from a loyal reader who recently delurked and also happens to be an attorney (no offense taken at any lawyer-bashing posts since I agree with them):
The legal standard for a claim of this nature is "likelihood of consumer confusion". Would a typical consumer, possessing average intelligence (ignoring the fact that comic book readers are inherently more intelligent than the rest of the world), believe that the allegedly infringing marks are associated with the marks of the entity holding the allegedly infringed marks? As your hilarious post points out, on its surface this liklihood seems low. Likewise, the "look and feel" (an amorphous standard that is used in the analysis of these things) of your mark, logo and website, are very different. Your own lawyer will give you better and more specific advice, but I think that the central point here is that your mark is in fact registered. I would be curious to know which mark was registered first, but as long as you respond to this specious letter in a clear and forceful manner you seem to have a strong defensive position from my point of view. I guess I have to do the lawyer thing here and add a caveat that I am not an IP specialist and that I am not licensed in DC or VA (yeah, I know this makes me look pompous and stupid, but those are the rules...) On perhaps a more important note, as a comic book consumer who just moved to the Beltway (MD), Big Planet Comics just lost a potential customer over this.
" Scipio, if you can give me a hint where semi-close parking could be found, I'll make the switch."
Hm.
I walk there, so I'm not sure. Devon (at Seven Hells) might be able to advise...
There's always the parking garage at Georgetown Park (Wisconsin and M). That's what my friends usually do when they drive to G'town.
In all complete seriousness, I agree with Mike and Scarlett above. Althopugh this sounds like a frivolous lawsuit, make certain your lawyer is aware of and can handle a response to this.
This may be second-guessing, but I'd suggest that blogging about this letter might come back to bite you in the ass later. Goofy litigation or no, might be prudent to treat it privately and professionally.
Like you need to accept legal suggestions from a little stuffed bull--but good luck, anyway. The moral right is definitely on your side; keep the legal right on your side as well by not jeopardizing any aspect of this situation.
"They're betting that you won't resist the claim because you can't afford to litigate the issue, if it comes to that. A letter politely but strongly disputing the likelihood of consumer confusion and pointing out your own registration, if any, will probably be effective. I think it's pretty unlikely that a court would find confusion, and I doubt they really want to spend the money on litigation themselves. (Of course, listen to your own lawyer, and not to me.)"
Done and done, Sarah. And our attorneys agree with you.
Harvey:
I won't lie to you parking is a beast here in Georgetown. It's never easy to park here especially on weekends. Weekdays and weeknights you can usually find decent parking that will leave you within yards of the store on "P" St.
Also, the CVS 3 doors down offers validated parking if you buy something from them. So, if you ever need to pick up something from the drugstore...there you go.
I can't do much about the parking situation around here but if you decide to make a change, we'll make as pleasant of one as possible.
I used to be a Big Planet customer for years (I liked that they had just comics and no toys, tees, etc)until they cancelled my pull box. I hadn't been in a month and a half and they had an old email address, etc, etc. That didn't put me off on them until they didn't offer to start the box up again. I will admit that I don't go to Big Monkey that much either only because I no longer work at The Gap in G'Town. I will say that the customer service at Big Monkey has been great - It's always cool to see another brotha at the store. Big ups to Devon!
How about leaving us the lawyer's home telephone number so that we can all give him a call and let him know what we think of this? I'll phone at 5 am.
Isn't it against the law to file such stupid litigation in an effort to harass your competition?
They attempted to terrorize Scip to their will.
They're terrorists!
Let the mud slinging commence!
Harvey, etc:
I always find free parking on Q or P street within a block or two (towards 31st/30th) of Wisconsin; and this is at the busiest times of the week, so I think I've had to deal with pretty much the worst case scenario. It just requires a little bit of walking, unfortunately. But hey, Planet of the Monkeys Comics is worth it in my eyes.
Sadly, that's not the most insane trademark dispute I've ever heard of. I took a class on copyright law in college and we discussed a case where the Kelloggs Corporation sent a "cease and desist" to a steel drum band in Seattle for calling themselves The Toucans.
Apparently small children were mistaking a regional band for a sugary brakfast cereal leading to a 6 year trademark dispute.
The Toucans finally won, however.
This sounds like an insane allegation on Big Planet's part. Moreover, the logos don't look even remotely alike!
I haven't been to your store (yet! but plan to next time I am in DC!) so I don't know exactly what you sell. But I suppose if worse came to worse, you could adjust the logo so it just reads "BIG MONKEY" and underneath that have the subtitle "Comics. Games. Bananas."
Uh, you can skip the bananas part. But perhaps its a way you can turn lemons into lemonade here, by rebranding a bit and asserting that hey kids, you've got comics and much, much more.
But of course, you'd have to go through the expensive and annoying process of going through the registration process again if you did that.
Ugh, heaven help us from frivolous litigation! Good luck Scip, you have the moral right and a registered trademark on your side! My only suggestion is that you shoulds start putting the circle R on your logo going forward.
...let me share my knowledge of the law from my dating of court employees.
Scarlett Drake, you rock.
So does this mean that BC Comics in Burke is now going sue EC Comics in Vennia over a simlar trademark?
I admit when I told my wife I wanted to go to Big Monkey Comics the first time she thought we where going to Vennia. Then again there a ton of comic book shops in Vennia.
Funny how Big Planet is slowly turning into dino like BC comics. So when is Mr. Pollack going to pop in and yell at Devon for offering a better customer service?
(local NOVA legend was that when Big Planet comics started out. The Owner of BC comics, the comic book empire in the 80s and comic book haters, walked in and yelled at the owners of Big Planet for offering better customers service and a discount. His major complaint was that buy treating comic book buyers nicely, they where going to drive him out of bussiness. To say the owner of BC comics liked comic book buyers is a large strech. A think that amount of hate for BC comics owner was summed up best when his death was announced at certain local comic shop:
Customer - "Did you hear *Owner of BC comics* died?"
Owner of a certain shop -
"Do you know where he is buried? I all of sudden feel the urge to dance?"
Customer - "Take a number there is a long line."
Sadly I think people are lining up to also dance on said Owner of a certain shop grave too. )
"...the doomed exploding monkey of Krypton."
I would buy 3 copies each of that title.
"...the doomed exploding monkey of Krypton."
I would buy 3 copies each of that title.
I hear it's on Grant Morrison's short list...
BC Comics is now owned by someone else, I think it's now Phoenix Comics like the one in Herndon.
As to the Big Planet/Big Monkey debate, why did you choose Big Monkey knowing that Big Planet was right down the street from you? Was it to cause confusion? Was it to poke fun? Or was it complete happenstance? I'm wondering why you didn't name the store Beyond Monkeys since you converted it from Jon's ownership.
Maybe you should be able to open a McDougals Hamburgers right next to a McDonald's you prick.
Yeah, I'm sure it was coincidence to change your name to Big Monkey Comics right down the street from a Big Planet Comics. Nice to know you knew you couldn't succeed on your own merit.
Actually, the name Big Monkey Comics was originally chosen for the store in Richmond (the one that didn't happen).
The conversations about that are even still available on line. The name was retained when the DC store was acquired and the Fredericksburg store opened.
Big Planet is not McDonalds. The predecessor store to Big Monkey did twice the business the the Big Planet store does. Even if there were any confusion, it would be Big Planet that would be receiving benefit, not Big Monkey.
However, I, unlike some, have faith in the intelligence of the customers of both stores. If customers are going to one store and not the other, it is not because they cannot tell the difference between them.
It's because they can.
P.S. I expect commenters on my blog to be able to make their points without swearing. Or least, with a "@#$(*^!"
Kong say me am only monkey allowed. Say Kong lawyer crush you like puny jungle man then me rip your spine out. Kong am only monkey! You stop taking Kong money.
Uh oh airplanes coming Kong get back to you.
First, why don't you post the logo's and signage at issue?
Second, tell us why you located so close to an existing successful and long running business?
Third, if the store you bought out did so well why are they gone?
Finallly, who is up and blogging at 4:00AM?
Is his wife comely?
If so I would gladly babysit, when she asks him where he is going.
She won't care if he comes back.
tell us why you located so close to an existing successful and long running business?
There seems to be some misunderstanding.
The store we bought was in the area first. It was Big Planet that moved in around the corner from an existing shop, not us.
If you want to know why THEY did that, perhaps you should ask them.
why don't you post the logo's and signage at issue?
Another store's logo is not mine to use as I please. The post provides links to the website of each store, where each logo is visible.
if the store you bought out did so well why are they gone?
They aren't "gone". They have a huge new store in suburbs and another in Maryland. They're called "Beyond Comics"; nice place, good people. Do visit them sometime. Tell them I sent you.
Finallly, who is up and blogging at 4:00AM?
Is his wife comely?
You've obviously never been to the Absorbascon before...
To all of the persons named "Anonymous":
I can as a twenty year subscriber to the various incarnations of the current Big Monkey Comics (Another World/Another Universe/Beyond Comics)attest to the fact that we were here in Georgetown first. The very first comic I ever bought from Another World...hmmm...Another World/Big Planet... was Batman: The Killing Joke which, I believe came out nearly 20 years ago. I bought it when AW was located on P St. in Georgetown.
The store changed it's name to Another Universe & moved to M St. about 10 years ago. When Another Universe Georgetown folded five years ago, it was bought out by Beyond Comics. That year I believe Another Universe...OOPS, I mean, Big Planet moved into Georgetown, just up the street from us. At which point, in one form or another, we'd been in Georgetown for over fifteen years.
Due to rising rent costs, we had to move and the most affordable & available space was located just off of P St, just across the street from our old location and in my eyes, not up the hill from Planet Universe.
Yes, we've had many name changes but so did Timely/Atlas/Marvel Comics.
Our history in Washington is rock solidly rooted in fact, not when someone else "discovered" Georgetown.
"You've obviously never been to the Absorbascon before... "
Yeah, that one got me too.
As for all this junk about accusing Big Monkey of moving in next to Big Planet to steal their dough...I guess Scip has already basically laid out the facts but I just thought I'd help make things clear. First of all, Big Monkey has, amidst various names and a couple (more than a couple?) ownerships, been in Georgetown for more than a decade. I know I've been shopping there for about that long. A handful of years ago, they moved locations from M Street to Wisconsin--before Big Planet was anywhere near the neighborhood. A few years later Big Planet decided they needed a G-Town presence and moved in about a block away. I don't know their reasons, as I have never been to their Georgetown store and haven't visited their other one in years. But they chose to move that close to Big Monkey/Beyond Comics, not the other way around.
Recently Scip decided he wanted some adventure in his life, so he acquired ownership of BM/BC to further the secret gay agenda and infect our children with homosexual propaganda. He did not do this because the store was doing poorly (not that I want to speak for Scip, but I think this much is clear), but rather because he loved the store almost as much as he loves dog sweaters and it was, and continues to be, doing very well (and certainly better than the local competition). So history was made and now Big Scip's in charge. If you head over to the Big Monkey blog that he mentions above, you'll see the name and logo were decided upon for a separate store (and/or chain of stores), and when he got his hands on the Georgetown place it was renamed according to this decision–a decision, again, not tailor-made to this specific location.
That’s as much as I can muster in common sense’s defense at the moment, but let me know if you need any more help, anonymous.
Also, to reiterate what Scip said, he very clearly linked to pages that displayed the two logos and despite the guilt you imply, it is completely obvious how different they are from each other. Beside the fact that they both combine words with a picture of some kind.
Sorry if you don't think you need me help Scip, but I'm nosy and defensive of my hometown hangout :)
Damnit, Devon!!! Beating me by minutes with things like facts and experience rather than vague memories of being 8 years old. Go back to playing with your monkey and stop stealing my thunder.
Awww, Andrew's all grown up now.
Devon thanks. The last time I visited Big Monkey Comics, I swore there used to be a comic book shop across the street from back in the early 90s (last time I visited was for a Valiant/Image book signing). That had moved to M-Street when Another World changed its name to Another Universive. If anyone does not belive me that Another World did not exist in the 90s. Go open up a comic book for the early 90s/late 80s. Look at the addresses of the comic books shopping offering huge deals and subscription. Yup one those address is P-Street Georgetown location of Another World.
It took me awhile to find Big Monkey Comics because I thoght Big Monkey Comics was on M-Street at the Another Univerise/Beyond Comic location as of 2001 when Beyond bought Another Univerise DC location. Thanks Devon for claifiy that mystery too. Long story short there has been a comic shop in Georgetown since the mid 80s. Big Monkey is part of that legacy and not Big Planet which arrived in the late 90s.
As for BC Comics. Yes they are now owned by Phoneix Comics. However vestiages of it is still in exsitance.
Here is a simplified history of it:
BC opened in the 80's as a book store/comic book shop in Burke, Va.
Right next to the Domino Pizza shop owned by the guy in the famous Vetinam picture of the Vetinam cop shotting a crook with his pistol. That shop is now a Blockbusters.
The guys who owned that location business went downhill in the mid to late 90s and sold the location to Lance.
Lance then moved BC comics to another location in the shopping center and open a bunch of other BC locations. Those BC locations where the Centreville shop, Alexandria shop (which was previsouly owned by guy named Kai who sold it to Dan, the owner of the Lucky Frog, who renamed it the Lucky Frog II. Who then sold it to Lance who renamed it BC Comics Alexandar.) , Annadale Shop (Ron Collectors World, this location was a partnership more then a buy out). Then Lance moved the Burke BC location to the Fairfax shopping centre across from GMU. Lance ran into finicial problems and closed the Alexander location (not sure what is too but it is not a comic book shop) and Centreville locations (which now a Curves gym). He also ended his partnership with Ron (which still exsits). After a few months at the Fairfax location, Lance sold the shop to Phoniex Comics in Sterling who renamed it Phoneix Comics II I belive. The Fairfax shop is still there. At the time of closure of all the BC comic shops one of the employees split off and started his own shop. This shop is Nova Comics in Springfield VA. Nova Comics also is where I belive most of BC Comics back issue inventory ended up. The orginal founder of BC comics passed away a few years ago from a heart attack (I belive). Lance is now a banker (again I belive) and most of BC comics old employees either have quit/fired, work/own Nova comics or work at Phoniex comics. However in the 90s when Big Planet in Vennia started up BC comics was still owned by the orginial owner who attacked them at any chance he could over their bussiness pratices.
The lesson in all this. Shops change owners and locations all the time without their legacy chaning. Big Monkey Comics is just next part in the legacy of Another World Geogetown shop.
...and how many times has Marvel changed hands, "darling?"
Don't dance with a boxer, sweetheart.
I don't see where this "failed" thing is coming from. I know Another Universe had to move from its crazy big M Street location for, perhaps among other reasons, probably not raking in the appropriate cash for such premium real estate; but is evey change in ownership an indicator of failure? At least in the Big Monkey instance, I'd say a huge no. Of course I'll defer to the experts on this one if I'm not on target.
And as little as I know, I'm sure people who don't even know who Scip or Devon are know even less than I do about their financial success.
Listen I don't know you, as you won't reveal yourself. I have nothing to hide behind. At the end of the day, all I have is me.
That's all I can offer. I don't argue over The Internet. I don't have to.
As someone wanted, we'll let the lawyers box it out.
We have very good lawyers. They don't dance.
Good night and I sincerely say, "God bless"...
whoever you are.
Well there's a difference between being a "success" and being a comic book shop that survives in a two-story location in the middle of M street. I could never believe how they were there in the first place. Just look at Big Planet's G-town location, a tiny shop on a side street off Wisconsin around a bunch of houses. Even the current location Another Universe moved to is better (and bigger, from what I can tell) than Big Planet's. I don't mean to incite a pissing contest or anything, I'm just trying to make it clear that Big Monkey is in no way a failing business, despite the multiple ownerships. If you're familiar with the area (I obviously have no idea where you're from, who you are, whatever), you should probably understand. Also, you may remember that the first change the store underwent, that kicks off your list of evidence that they are a failure, was the change from tiny P street store to the huge M street location, so...I guess that's at least one kink in your logic.
Crystal_tina did you ever bother to study bussiness or math for that matter?
Rent on M Street is rather high, hence a comic book shop has to sell a lot of comics.
For this example:
Lets say I can sell 1000 comics am month ($1 each) at the M-Street location. My costs are $900 a month ($800 rent, $100 other costs). I make $100 a month.
If I move my shop to location b. Which is a few block from the M street location with my rent going down by 20% and my sales only going down 10% what I am going do? If you understand math you are going move.
Let me do the math for you, my rent is now $640 and my total cost is now $740. I now only sell $900 worth of comics. However my profits grow to $160 or 60% increase in profits. In this case how fast are you going to move locations? Particular if the move will not cost you a few months of the extra profits.
Did you ever think someone at Beyond Comics/Big Monkey Comics bothered to do the math and figured out that they could make more profit at their current location, then at their M-Street location and decied to move?
Then again I think you just like saying bold statements that defy standard bussiness logic.
Crystal_tina did you ever take debate or for that matter take a logic class? You attacked my arguement by Poisoning the Well and making a Personal Attack. Not by showing the flaw in my logic.
Lets check your logic out by breaking down your arguements and statements from the beginning:
Alright lets start from the begining of your arguements:
your aurguement is this:
With all due respect, it seems to me that this was a purposeful move on your end (BIG Monkey being two blocks down from BIG Planet...come on Scipio, your fans might have been born at night but not last night).
your first statement of proof:
And Devon, darling, I don't think I would market the current store as the same store as AW, AU, and BC...after all, they all failed.
Fallacy: Guilt By Association and Personal Attack
second statement:
Peolple tend to not sell successful businesses..four times.
Fallacy: Confusing Cause and Effect and Slippery Slope
Next statement
Analogies are not your long suit are they, Devon sugar...
Fallacy: Personal Attack
Next statement
I wouldn't compare myself to Marvel if I wanted make the point of a sucessful business model.
Fallacy: Begging the Question
Next statement:
As for Another Universe, if it was a success, it could have afforded the rent on M street
Fallacy: Biased Induction
Next statement:
Don't box with a princess, "sweetheart". In the war of wits, you're unarmed.
Fallacy: Appeal to Fear and a Personal Attack.
Next statement:
I'm just a blogger, honey. Just a blogger.
No fallacy, just has nothing to do with your arguement. Unless you consider this a Red Herring. Which is a fallacy.
Next statement
And may the Goddess bless you as you have done to others
May be the fallacy but again has nothing to do with arguement.
Next statement:
Well, I do know how to spell business.
Fallacy: Appeal to Authority
Next Statement:
You continue to loose credibility with your arguement when you spell the word "business" wrong.
Fallacy: Poisoning the Well and personal attack
Next statement:
Besides, I never said Big Monkey Comics was a faliure or even headed towards it.
Fallacy: Red Herring
Next statment:
My comments about faliure were solely directed at the previous business venues. Since they no longer have the same ownership or name (and I hope a different management team) they probably shouldn't, for their own reputation, ally themselves with it.
Fallacy: Circumstantial Ad Hominem
Next Statement:
As for the rest of the "kink" in my logic, all that matters in retail is the bottom line.
Valid but that supports my arguement on why a business would move.
Next Statement:
When businesses prosper, yes... they do grow into bigger locations, but Another Universe closed ALL it's retail locations. The final outcome sure rings of faliure to me.
Fallacy: Questionable Cause
Crystal Tina I would like to see proof and not a bunch of pointless statements and fallacies before I belive your arguement.
You continue to loose (sic) credibility with your arguement (sic) when you spell the word 'business' wrong. -- crystal_tina
Regarding the above, Homer Simpson said it best: "The ironing is delicious."
(And big ups to that last Anonymous. Someone obviously paid attention in their philosophy classes.)
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