Monday, January 09, 2006

Crossover Crises

SO! Apparently, I'm not the only person who believes that Hal Jordan gets hit on the head far far far more than normal (see HERE , where he intentionally flies full speed headfirst into a yellow billboard and HERE where JSAers club the already prostrate Hal senselss).

Excellent. Meanwhile...

Am I the only person who thinks that both Marvel's big event, The House of M, and DC's big event, Infinite Crisis, have their roots in the same place: The JLA/Avengers Crossover?

At the end of the JLA/Avengers Crossover (did it have any other name?), Krona (the Big Blue Oan Plumber who caused the multiverse to begin with) was transformed in a "world egg", a sort of embryonic universe, which the JLA kept for monitoring.

I recall that in later issues of the JLA, the egg was doing something funky, but that Metron was keeping any evidence of it from being detected. Hasn't been mentioned since, has it?

In his recent final battle with the Spectre, Nabu (the Dr. Fate guy) said there's something or someone else behind Eclipso, using her to manipulate the Spectre -- something/one hungry, needy. Krona, whose hunger for knowledge is legendary?

Really, now that we've seen the "Antimonitower", the only thing missing from Crisis on Infinite Earths in Infinite Crisis is Krona (who, as mentioned, was last seen in the JLA/Avengers Crossover).

Meanwhile, as I understand it, the Scarlet Witch (Wanda Maximoff, right?) goes all bonkers and uberpowerful, wishing for a better world than hers. Well, that seems to me pretty much like a repeat of what happened to her in JLA/Avengers.

While in the DCU, she got wacky powerful with the high octane 'chaos magic' we have (whatever that may be) and it was driving her crazy. She was also sad that the DCU was a more friendly place for her type than the Marvel universe, and was royally ticked about having to restore a world where she'd lost her kids.

Whether she remembers all that or not, doesn't it seem like a sensible root cause for what she's done? I'm told Marvel readers aren't happy about her actions seeming out of the blue. Why doesn't Marvel just "blame" the JLA/Avengers Crossover, which is where I think DC is headed?

Even I, no big fan of cross-company stuff, totally geek out on the idea that both companies might root their concurrent universal makeovers in the core cross-company event of the last 30 years....!

So, am I crazy, or what?


Anonymous said...

Would this be the first Marvel-DC crossover that would then become an irrefutable part of continuity?

Anonymous said...

I've thought this for a while. One of the plot points of Busiek's story in JLA was that the DC universe had changed in some way since JLA/Avengers, and the Crime Syndicate could now beat the Justice League on their home turf.
I thought the idea that the DC universe had been "infected" by Marvel's was neat, but I wasn't sure if it would be referenced again.

Scipio said...

Yes, it IS part of DCU continuity (for the moment) because of the Busiek JLA story.

I think DC is "secure" enough to use the JLA/Avengers thing as a basis for IC.

I do NOT think Marvel is going to do the same with HOM ... but they should.

Anonymous said...

I only read JLA/Avengers for the first time a month or two ago, and noticed the same thing. It sure seems unlikely that both companies would use the story as such, but an awful lot of HoM/IC stuff is in there.

Anonymous said...

Hmm, that's pretty clever. The world egg may end up being part of whatever world changes emerge from the end of IC, also.

Dorian said...

I believe there was a casual mention of Wanda coming into contact with "chaos magic" in Avengers Disassembled, the root of all the Marvel cross-over shenanigans, which read very much as a reference to Avengers/JLA. I think Marvel has pulled back from that, somewhat, specifically to avoid giving the impression that their uber-crossover is based on something that happened in a comic published with DC (on top of giving the appearance that the only reason they are having an uber-crossover is that DC has been having success with theirs).

As far as DC goes, I got the impression that the Krona egg story in JLA was the last we were going to hear about the Avengers/JLA cross-over in that universe (at least until Busiek revisits it). I think Infinite Crisis is more than likely going to turn out to have its roots in the DC U, once we do find out what, exactly, is going on.

Anonymous said...

In his recent final battle with the Spectre, Nabu (the Dr. Fate guy) said there's something or someone else behind Eclipso, using her to manipulate the Spectre -- something/one hungry, needy. Krona, whose hunger for knowledge is legendary?

I read that as Nabu realizing that someone set Eclipso on a collision path with Spectre on purpose, to be the "rabid dog" that consumed the DCU magical community. Since it has already been stated that all of the lead-up stories were orchestrated by the same guy (presumably Alexander Luthor), I assume that Alex and Eclipso made a deal, and Alex was the one who snuck the black diamond into Jean Loring's cell at Arkham.

Benari said...

Yeah, I can definitely see that - I think the JLA/Avengers cross-over ending was designed more for the DC universe, though, being that it focused on Krona. And being that Busiek was heading over to DC.

But it *is* a good theory.

Also, JLA/Avengers was the last comic book "EVENT" story that I really enjoyed.

Doc Nebula said...

I've pretty much theorized (as you know, since you read and linked to it) that JLAvengers is, in fact, the source for the current Infinite Crisis. It would seem strange, but on the other hand, Johns seems to be pretty much in charge, and he seems to have excellent taste, and JLAvengers is the finest superhero story ever told, so springing something off it would be an excellent idea.

That could mean that Alexander Luthor is really Kronos, I don't know.

Yes, Busiek did the bit with the Kronos/Egg Universe thing in his story arc on JLA that followed immediately after JLAvengers. And no, I don't think it's been mentioned since, just as nobody but Busiek has ever mentioned frickin Triathlon since Busiek stopped writing AVENGERS (and even Busiek didn't have the gall to try to shoehorn frickin Silverclaw into JLAvengers; Triathon was hard enough to swallow).

In the end, I doubt the DC editorial staff would really let a crossover event become so firmly rooted in their fundamental continuity. But I admit, I think it would be a lovely idea. In fact, I think it would be fabulous if, as INFINITE CRISIS comes to a close, we suddenly find that the Avengers have to drop by and help resolve things... but I know THAT's a pipe dream...

Anonymous said...

Nabu is referring to whoever the "end boss" of IC is, which right now looks to be Alexander Luthor, but quite obviously isn't the case, since Alexander Luthor looks like an evil version of Napoleon Dynamite. You need some gravitas to pull off the world-crushing cosmic villain thing.

Is it Krona? Could be, I guess, but I doubt it, for three reasons:

1. The Law of Incestuous Storylines works against it. JLA/Avengers is a Busiek story, and was only made quasi-canonical by another Busiek story. Writers invariably drag their pet characters and arcs from title to title, but for one writer to decide to pick up another's - especially one from an intercompany crossover only referenced once since, and by the same writer - is fairly rare.

2. Not enough groundwork has been laid to suggest Krona or a Krona appearance; if he turns out to be the villain it would come pretty much out of nowhere. Which isn't to say it couldn't happen, but it would be less than satisfying.

3. Infinite Crisis is self-consciously modeling itself after Crisis On Infinite Earths. I've said before that the villain of this one's going to be the Anti-Monitor, and now that half his corpse has turned up pleasantly mounted on a big glowy doomsday device, I'd make that a sure bet. Who wants to lay odds that when that machine comes on, it reanimates the big guy again?

Anonymous said...

The mastermind behind the crisises is of course Mister Mind.

Anonymous said...

Or maybe Headmaster Mind

Shawn Levasseur said...

I do agree that the Scarlet Witches actions of late have their roots in JLA/Avengers...

I even commented about this in another forum

Remember in issue 2 of that mini-series, the Scarlet Witch was slowly being corrupted (becoming harsher in personality, becoming colder, pale, and quite possibly ill?) by the wilder nature of magic in the DC Universe?

I think that that was what led to her actions in Avengers: Disassembled , and House of M. DC Universe magic is very different from that in Marvel. Which is why Dr. Strange thought that Wanda wasn't using magic.

She WAS, but no magic that Strange had seen before. She went mad because of DC Universe Magic Rule #1, that using magic comes with a price attached.

In other words, Wanda's madness could be called "A bad case of Vertigo"...