tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post6039451724092670934..comments2024-03-27T19:04:14.544-05:00Comments on The Absorbascon: The Conceptual Hall of ShameScipiohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1021784768219019262008-02-21T09:50:00.000-05:002008-02-21T09:50:00.000-05:00I can't believe I forgot The Moon Knight Twofer!Ve...I can't believe I forgot <B>The Moon Knight Twofer!</B><BR/><BR/>Very early in Moon Knight's career, when he was still a backup character in the <I>Hulk</I> black-and-white magazine, he chased down a slasher who attacked female nurses. The killer was a raving, shirtless loon who was revealed to be...<I>Moon Knight's long-lost brother! On a quest for insane revenge against a long-lost parent!</I> <BR/><BR/>Dun dun duuuuun! DRAMA!<BR/><BR/>Not long thereafter, MK had his own series. Just a few issues in, there was another slasher, this one targeting the homeless. Said slasher was a raving (and, I believe, shirtless) loon who was revealed to be...<I>Moon Knight's main informant's long-lost son! On a quest for insane revenge against a long-lost parent!</I> <BR/><BR/>Dun dun duuuuuun! DRAMA!<BR/><BR/>Yep. <B>Two</B> long-lost relatives turned loony shirtless slashers bent on indiscriminate vengeance in the space of just a few stories. Check out <I>Essential Moon Knight Volume One</I> and you can find 'em within a few pages of each other.<BR/><BR/>Hey, recycling stories worked for Mort Weisinger, right?Harvey Jerkwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07118848012122050416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-74524096390422127842008-02-20T19:20:00.000-05:002008-02-20T19:20:00.000-05:00Sybok, Spock's heretofore-unmentioned half-brother...Sybok, Spock's heretofore-unmentioned half-brother from <I>Star Trek V: Why Does God Need A Starship?</I>, fits this trope.Your Obedient Serpenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07133256640355844314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-17036812455745384712008-02-20T13:04:00.000-05:002008-02-20T13:04:00.000-05:00"It was Firestorm; it didn't have to make sense."T..."It was Firestorm; it didn't have to make sense."<BR/><BR/>Truer words were never spoken.Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-57538760211804773542008-02-19T16:17:00.000-05:002008-02-19T16:17:00.000-05:00Cliff Carmichael is a rival-turned-evil type, alth...Cliff Carmichael is a rival-turned-evil type, although at least not a continuity implant like most of these guys. (Since Firestorm was the anti-spider man, his secret ID's hard-luck school jock needed a Flash Thompson type, so Cliff was the school's combination nerd/bully. It was Firestorm; it didn't have to make sense. Anyhow, later on he became an uncodenamed villian with the Thinker's powers in a chip in his brain instead of a helmet. But by then Firestorm had no book of his own, so he was a Suicide Squad villian who Ostrander seemed to be grooming as an Oracle archnemesis, although nobody else followed up on that.)<BR/><BR/>It occurs to me that half of the characters in Ramna 1/2 fit this pattern, although there, it seems to work.Jeff R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10010142887152619337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-33178820450642420722008-02-19T15:35:00.000-05:002008-02-19T15:35:00.000-05:00Are you kidding? There are tons of these. Lay yo...Are you kidding? There are tons of these. Lay your eyes on these examples:<BR/><BR/>http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RivalTurnedEvil<BR/><BR/>http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CainAndAbelUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03522866331107779909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-62225814593025228342008-02-19T13:45:00.000-05:002008-02-19T13:45:00.000-05:00An "Enormously Evil But Previously Unmentioned Bro...An "Enormously Evil But Previously Unmentioned Brother" from the Silver Age: <B>Scorpio</B>, the long-lost, previously unmentioned brother of Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD. <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/scorpiojakefury.htm" REL="nofollow">Scorpio</A> began as a mysterious character, turning up in a few Nick Fury stories, his identity a mystery. He appeared in public as an Italian race-car driver, Count Julio Scarlotti, but that too was a disguise. The catchphrase they pushed was "<I>Who is Scorpio?</I>" <BR/><BR/>And lo, in time, we found he was...<I>Nick's Brother!</I><BR/><BR/>DRAMA!!<BR/><BR/>Though one should note that the writer on Nick Fury changed just before the big reveal, and it's possible that Scorpio was originally intended to be someone else. Probably Baron Strucker in disguise.<BR/><BR/>Jake "Scorpio" Fury killed himself in the mid-seventies in an issue of <I>The Defenders</I> and has managed to stay dead, though a robot duplicate of him turned up a few times to be a pain in everyone's collective butts.Harvey Jerkwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07118848012122050416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-83916951670955483002008-02-18T09:55:00.000-05:002008-02-18T09:55:00.000-05:00"Malefic, the person responsible for the death of ..."Malefic, the person responsible for the death of every other Martian who'd never previously come up."<BR/><BR/>Okay, THAT made me laugh.Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-78760078762952727242008-02-18T08:38:00.000-05:002008-02-18T08:38:00.000-05:00I'm willing to defend Ocean Master on the basis th...<I>I'm willing to defend Ocean Master on the basis that Aquaman had such a long history of truly, deeply, painfully lousy villains, you had to retroactively give him a good one to show he himself wasn't a loser. Plus, the basis for his hate was well played in the Pozner mini-series.</I><BR/><BR/>Hey, I like Ocean Master too, and I definitely agree about Aquaman's pre-1966 rogues gallery (Electric Man? Nuff said.) I was just pointing out that he fits the description of Enormously Evil but Previously Unmentioned Brother, that's all. Aquaman swam through the pages of National Periodical Publications for 25 years before we ever knew he had a sibling.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-6110902096347867522008-02-18T07:41:00.000-05:002008-02-18T07:41:00.000-05:00oh, come now! Saying that Malefic wasn't in the M...oh, come now! Saying that Malefic wasn't in the Martian Manhunter Showcase is like complaining that Conduit wasn't in Superboy stories; misses the point. The post-Crisis Clark also had a thoroughly documented childhood. The post-Crisis J'onn didn't-- and we knew that Mars and J'onn's relationship to it were very different post-Crisis, since pre-Crisis the Martians weren't dead.<BR/><BR/>Even post-Crisis, poor J'onn has been batted around a lot, with the fire vulnerability having a different basis every year or two. I don't have any more trouble believing in a brother we'd never heard of than in Saturnians, or in Martians founding human civilization with genetic engineering, or that every telepath on earth is part-Martian, or in whatever the hell happened in The Burning.Jacob T. Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02575549001627195334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-44676826934077283062008-02-17T23:38:00.000-05:002008-02-17T23:38:00.000-05:00I'm willing to defend Ocean Master on the basis th...I'm willing to defend Ocean Master on the basis that Aquaman had such a long history of truly, deeply, painfully lousy villains, you had to retroactively give him a good one to show he himself wasn't a loser. Plus, the basis for his hate was well played in the Pozner mini-series.<BR/><BR/>Scipio, thank you for acknowledging J'Onn J'Onzz's continuity in refuting any defense of Malefic, the person responsible for the death of every othef Martian who'd never previously come up. As an added bonus, that one genocidal act was the only thing preventing Despero from standing in for him. Well, that and the nipple ring.Diabolu Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04685199809207954223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-89499396927345703782008-02-17T06:54:00.000-05:002008-02-17T06:54:00.000-05:00Hey DerekI'm pretty sure DC have trademarked Alley...Hey Derek<BR/><BR/>I'm pretty sure DC have trademarked Alley-Cat (so it would be available for Holly). I think the reason the name was changed from She-Cat was that AC have a (presumably) trademarked character called She-Cat.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06461344783528823076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-67568071360428350312008-02-17T00:59:00.000-05:002008-02-17T00:59:00.000-05:00Oh yeah, that almost never works. It always seems...Oh yeah, that almost never works. It always seems forced, and you can tell that this new character is the villain almost as soon as they appear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-24343622378614724442008-02-16T20:11:00.000-05:002008-02-16T20:11:00.000-05:00Mekt Ranzz certainly doesn't count, he's a variati...Mekt Ranzz certainly doesn't count, he's a variation on the "evil twin", which goes right back to Cain and Abel.<BR/><BR/>I do remember there was one 80's era Firestorm villain who might be related to this model, - the Weasel, maybe? When his identity was revealed, he turned out to be some guy who completely hated Ronnie Raymond from High School, but the punchline was that Raymond had absolutely no idea who he was and didn't remember him at all. "He could have been anybody". *That* approach would have improved Conduit and Hush, I dare say. "Sorry, <I>who</I> are you again? Uh huh..."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-25469869756401029332008-02-16T19:55:00.000-05:002008-02-16T19:55:00.000-05:00the Enormously Evil But Previously Unmentioned Bro...<I>the Enormously Evil But Previously Unmentioned Brother is a definitely a Shameful Concept.<BR/><BR/>Remember Superman's Brother, the hunchback, and Batman's Brother, the congenital idiot...?</I><BR/><BR/>Yup, I remember both of those. Ocean Master, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-64479205362626500112008-02-16T19:34:00.000-05:002008-02-16T19:34:00.000-05:00slow responder says...I expect there are a few dif...slow responder says...<BR/>I expect there are a few different devices that "Shadowy Manipulator" could serve, so there might not be anything intrinsically awful about the concept (hell, any epic storyline probably should have foreshadowing, suspense and revelation), but in this case I am speaking of "Shadowy Manipulator" as an adjunct to your "Vengeful Childhood Friend" trope, where the villain's influence upon the hero precedes not only his first appearance, but the hero's knowledge of the villain's existence, as well. In the most extreme abuses, the Shadowy Manipulator will be revealed to have influenced the origin of the hero (so, sooo many years after the fact), as Mr. Sinister did with the Summers brothers. Or as Sid Caesar did with the Smothers brothers*. <BR/>*sorry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-52992651111595497252008-02-16T19:12:00.000-05:002008-02-16T19:12:00.000-05:00The problem is that if you don't have Shadowy Mani...The problem is that if you don't have Shadowy Manipulator characters, you seem to be stuck with ostensible super-geniuses who just have one stupid plan that gets foiled after another. Most of the time, R'as is pretty dumb for an immortal with endless shadowy resources-- Batman can stop his immediate plan and then cease worrying about him for a few years. Mr. Sinister and Apocalypse, two of the most annoying characters ever created, at least don't leave that impression-- victories against them feel ephemeral, the X-guys are never quite sure whether by winning they've played right into their hands, there are backup plans within backup plans, etc. The DC genius supervillains are much better characters but always seem pretty ineffectual. There were moments even in the decadent decline of the X-Books when the characters could get together and realize, "Sinister's out there somewhere up to something, the Hellfire Club is out there somewhere up to something, the Shadow King never really goes away," etc, and create a real impression of a world haunted by menace.<BR/><BR/>Until Mr. Sinister actually showed his face and started cloning everything in sight, when he was just the unseen figure behind the Marauders, he was actually a pretty effective concept.Jacob T. Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02575549001627195334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-85953240646366845832008-02-16T18:28:00.000-05:002008-02-16T18:28:00.000-05:00And don't forget Nubia...And don't forget Nubia...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-50050433433723379902008-02-16T17:11:00.000-05:002008-02-16T17:11:00.000-05:00"I'm willing to give Malefic a pass, since it's no...<I>"I'm willing to give Malefic a pass, since it's not like we'd seen J'onn's childhood depicted in thousands of stories over the course of decades. It was new backstory where little-to-none had existed"</I><BR/><BR/>Not so. Read the MM Showcase; we've met both JJ's parents and his brother (T'hom, by the way). True, that's not be referred to in a while but still ... the Enormously Evil But Previously Unmentioned Brother is a definitely a Shameful Concept.<BR/><BR/>Remember Superman's Brother, the hunchback, and Batman's Brother, the congenital idiot...?Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-16722317847532270292008-02-16T16:59:00.000-05:002008-02-16T16:59:00.000-05:00You know, Conduit was also a shadowy manipulator. ...You know, Conduit was also a shadowy manipulator. I haven't read the Death of Clark Kent in years, but I remember Kenny had a whole army at his disposal. Maybe that's not exactly shadowy manipulator, but how did he build an army, and did he really do it just to take down Clark? How did he fund it?<BR/><BR/>And his most diabolical plan was a recreation of Smallville using robots.Patrick Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04244280974612331889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-47497086925977573412008-02-16T16:20:00.000-05:002008-02-16T16:20:00.000-05:00Oh God - Conduit. I think I had successfully block...Oh God - Conduit. I think I had successfully blocked all memories of the Death of Clark Kent until this moment... oh God. That was a horrific storyline. So bad. <BR/><BR/>Yeah, this is always a pet peeve of mine, and it's something that they always do. Always. Nobody ever figures out just how much of a short-shelf life these villains have. The example of the Green Goblin is a very good one, because although there's an obvious connection to the character, it's not a *retroactive* connection: the reader met the Osborne family at the same time Peter Parker did, so it was more or less an organic creation, none of this "yeah, we used to play Yahtzee with Uncle Ben way back when but we never ever mentioned it before..." (Although, heh, there is always the guy who molested Peter who was retconned in that PSA comic...)<BR/><BR/>You could have knocked me over with a feather when I saw Alyssa Moy in this week's Fantastic Four. Claremont's run on FF wasn't perhaps the highlight of the team's history, but I thought she was a relatively fun character (if, admittedly, a retroactive implant, albeit one that served an interesting function in the modified Fantstic Four "dynastic centerpiece"). Many writers would never bother to look more than a year in the past to see if there was already an extant character that fit their requirements, so Millar gets a modicum of credit for that. <BR/><BR/>And as for the "shadowy manipulator" character... oh God, I think the introduction of this one single character type contributed significantly to the general downturn in quality of 90s comics (obviously one of many factors, but still). One or two can be interesting - look at how they've recast Vandal Savage and R'as Al Ghul over the years - but any time you introduce multiple characters with inspecific motivations, you're asking for trouble, especially when the original writer who (supposedly) knew what Character X was up to moves off the title, leaving vague set-ups that will never be properly resolved. This is a particular problem that we can blame squarely on the X-Men books, but I can't think of a single franchise at either company that hasn't suffered from this problem in some manner at some point.Tegan O'Neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14815842488966694944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-92017552959863491982008-02-16T15:25:00.000-05:002008-02-16T15:25:00.000-05:00Hypothesis: The "vengeful childhood friend" repres...Hypothesis: The "vengeful childhood friend" represents an overenthusiastic application of the storytelling devices Scipio praises as the <A HREF="http://absorbascon.blogspot.com/2005/06/dynastic-centerpiece-model.html" REL="nofollow"> "Dynastic Centerpiece" model</A>. It's an archetype of a villain whose villainous raison d'etre revolves <I>completely</I> around the main hero. It's no accident that Cobalt Blue was a Waid creation-- Waid's whole Flash run was oriented around the Flash legacy, family, dynasty, etc. And the idea of Conduit suddenly showing up as a guest-villain in Green Lantern Corps for a few issues is only <I>slightly</I> more absurd than the idea of Bizarro doing so. It's a reductio ad absurdum of the tendency to create villains who make less sense as freestanding bad guys than they do as tailor-made opponents for <I>this</I> hero.<BR/><BR/>Discuss.Jacob T. Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02575549001627195334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-74662705602142960862008-02-16T15:06:00.000-05:002008-02-16T15:06:00.000-05:00I'm willing to give Malefic a pass, since it's not...I'm willing to give Malefic a pass, since it's not like we'd seen J'onn's childhood depicted in thousands of stories over the course of decades. It was new backstory where little-to-none had existed, not a massive absurdity like Hush, Conduit, or Cobalt Blue.Jacob T. Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02575549001627195334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-7836010880118528162008-02-16T12:58:00.000-05:002008-02-16T12:58:00.000-05:00Woop! My mistake. Interesting how Millar's brought...Woop! My mistake. Interesting how Millar's brought back a character for the role of "Mrs. Fantastic," as opposed to making a new one from scratch. Seems he's done his research!Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08806565171767967754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-30389198797377775002008-02-16T12:08:00.000-05:002008-02-16T12:08:00.000-05:00It's not a new character from Millar. It's Alysa M...It's not a new character from Millar. It's Alysa Moy, a trademarked character from the one and only Chris Claremont. <BR/>But fits the profile to the bone.Desaadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240172925903567390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-6604596161586092542008-02-16T10:42:00.000-05:002008-02-16T10:42:00.000-05:00You've read this week's Fantastic Four then?Not ye...<I>You've read this week's Fantastic Four then?</I><BR/><BR/>Not yet, actually. I know Millar inserted a new character into Reed's past, though. We'll see how that plays out...Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08806565171767967754noreply@blogger.com