tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post2540587504297515368..comments2024-03-27T19:04:14.544-05:00Comments on The Absorbascon: Controversies of CharacterScipiohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-43909413127334501572022-10-03T21:23:01.692-05:002022-10-03T21:23:01.692-05:00"There's really only ONE controversy here...<b>"There's really only ONE controversy here: Fan entitlement vs. Publisher's rights."</b><br /><br />That's not a 'controversy', James. I feel you have completely missed the point. Yes, if I have a gun and you do not, it is well within my abilities to shoot you. That is non-controversial and clear. But whether it is appropriate is NOT.<br /><br />Similarly, the fact that publisher own the rights to characters and can do with them as they wish is not at issue. Whether they choose to exercise those rights responsibly is what is at issue. What you blithely label 'fan entitlement' is also known as the free market. DC's intellectual property and how they tell stories with them IS their product and our discussions and decisions about whether their choices are appropriate are what determines whether DC hits their sales target or simply shoot themselves in the foot.Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12112155718721908876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-56085405078089702082007-03-27T22:57:00.000-05:002007-03-27T22:57:00.000-05:00How about Arnold Drake's decision to kill the orig...How about Arnold Drake's decision to kill the original Doom Patrol when DC decided to end the series in 1968? That may not have much impact now, but back then, killing off characters <I>simply wasn't done.</I>VP81955https://www.blogger.com/profile/11792390726196611188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-74577969869470522412007-03-01T22:59:00.000-05:002007-03-01T22:59:00.000-05:00In reference to Speedy's drug addiction you say, "...In reference to Speedy's drug addiction you say, "that was controversial in the sense that the press would cover it, but was it really that controversial among comics fans?"<BR/><BR/>But back then we all read comics, not just 'fans'. Like we all watched TV shows. 'Fans' weren't the main audience for comics once 'upon a time', for better or worse. So yes it <STRONG>was</STRONG> very controversial.Shamushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02425340105986634717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-42407129058109497922007-03-01T13:29:00.000-05:002007-03-01T13:29:00.000-05:00I say to thee NAY! Nay I say! If a blog writer can...I say to thee NAY! Nay I say! If a blog writer can inspire this kind of dialog about high level topic, he(or she, but you know this is a pointed ironic post so we'll just say he...) has a moral obligation to keep posting. His obligation to entertain me, for no thanks but the love of his peers trumps his personal well being. So says me...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-75182551880914677992007-02-28T14:39:00.000-05:002007-02-28T14:39:00.000-05:00You all speak of heroes suffering. But I rise in d...You all speak of heroes suffering. But I rise in defense of a villain who was done the greatest injustice of all...KILLER MOTH!<BR/><BR/>Here is a man who went from being the mentally stable, confident,and happy Cameron Van Cleer to the pathetic, sobbing, rocking himself to sleep loser Drury Walker, who would sell his soul to the Devil to become a giant bug. I don't think so.<BR/><BR/>At least Charaxes is dead and a "new" Killer Moth is out and about. That comforting thought alone gets me to sleep some nights.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-56542039354976777002007-02-28T11:48:00.000-05:002007-02-28T11:48:00.000-05:00For sheer mischaracterization, though, I cite a on...For sheer mischaracterization, though, I cite a one-shot collection of file stories called <I>The Golden Age 80-Page Giant.</I> I think that's what it was called, anyway.<BR/><BR/>There was a story in that junkyard of the JSA having dinner and talking. Some guy wearing Dr. Mid-Nite's costume was spouting a lot of classist, elitist garbage. It can't have been the real Dr. Mid-Nite because that goes against everything else that was ever written about that character.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-63567123262584692812007-02-27T18:25:00.000-05:002007-02-27T18:25:00.000-05:00One thing that rankled me was the "Tower of Babel"...One thing that rankled me was the "Tower of Babel" storyline in JLA. Was it just me or did some of those guy's get a little TOO upset over the fact that Batman kept files on them and devised methods of taking them down if they went rogue? I mean, didn't Hal Jordan JUST get through losing his damn mind? And doesnt Supes get mind controlled every 5 years?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07659065797455099852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-11581031143311723992007-02-26T19:31:00.000-05:002007-02-26T19:31:00.000-05:00Right now, only ALEX ROSS understands the value in...Right now, only ALEX ROSS understands the value inherent in the DCU.<BR/><BR/>Read JUSTICE, and everything else reads like a crappy pastiche.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-60176241146509960102007-02-26T15:36:00.000-05:002007-02-26T15:36:00.000-05:00To me, one of the biggest controversial stories at...To me, one of the biggest controversial stories at DC is one they <I>didn't</I> print.<BR/><BR/>About 20 years ago, when Rick Veitch was writing <I>Swamp Thing</I>, he did a storyline where Swampy kept getting sent backwards in time, meeting interesting folk along the way; Sgt Rock, Enemy Ace, Tomahawk, etc. Mr. Veitch's plan was to have Swamp Thing eventually meet Jesus Christ himself.<BR/><BR/>Bye-bye, Rick, don't let the doorknob hit you.<BR/><BR/>Now, of course I never read the story. I don't know what Mr. Veitch's plans were. I seriously doubt he intended to do anything like say that Christ was a mutant, or anything like that. But I would have appreciated the opportunity to read the story and decide for myself. DC denied me that opportunity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-45273962485074781422007-02-25T23:47:00.000-05:002007-02-25T23:47:00.000-05:00I think "Evil Skeets" may be making too early of a...I think "Evil Skeets" may be making too early of an apperance on the list. The story's not over, and Skeets is, after all, only a robot; the question is who programmed him to be evil?<BR/><BR/>If the answer is something like "Jay Garrick", then we'll really have something for the list. ;)<BR/><BR/>I love how the 52 writers purposely wrote Booster Gold out of character early in the story, but no <I>so</I> out of character that a lot of fans wouldn't make the immediate connection that it was a plot point and would meta-read it as a mistake.<BR/><BR/>When fan entitlement goes wrong!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-9442719238968491652007-02-25T19:49:00.000-05:002007-02-25T19:49:00.000-05:00Yeah, Batman has a base on Pluto, right now and a ...Yeah, Batman has a base on Pluto, right now and a Bat-saucer to transport him there, courtesy of the Great and Powerful Morrison. See JLA:Classified #1-3. Great story.<BR/><BR/>And selective use of orbiting satellite lasers are, I think, warranted in special ocassions.Jon Hexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13599387638866026637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-36383354153125465132007-02-25T14:00:00.000-05:002007-02-25T14:00:00.000-05:00Heh heh. Fan entitlement, indeed.I've noticed, Mal...Heh heh. Fan entitlement, indeed.<BR/><BR/>I've noticed, Mallet, that the characters that do the best <BR/><BR/>in the long run <BR/><BR/>are those that are allowed to have a spectrum of interpretations, rather than remain exactly the same all the time.Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-69682567826734640012007-02-25T12:15:00.000-05:002007-02-25T12:15:00.000-05:00Many people felt the scipio character acted out of...Many people felt the scipio character acted out of sorts in a recent storyline. Some even threatening to stop reading. They felt that their Scipio would never have become this "grimmer" version we have now. Although this is clearly a character growth and a statement by the author that this character has his own views wether or not the audiance agrees with them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-68063418483544734452007-02-25T09:55:00.000-05:002007-02-25T09:55:00.000-05:00this wasnt a story, but a controversy in the LETTE...this wasnt a story, but a controversy in the LETTERS PAGE of Batman and the Outsiders.<BR/><BR/>when a fan said that in an old issue of B&B, it was revealed that Metamorpho knew Bats' secret identity, therefore nullifying a current plot by Mike Barr, Barr pointed out that that issue was so long ago it was not part of continuity anymore. (plus it was written by Bob Haney, who as we all know played fast and loose with the rules of the DCU)<BR/><BR/>PEOPLE WENT NUTS, someone even sent Barr a death threat!! it went on in the BATO letters pages for a few issues, people telling Barr he was disgracing the characters, etc. <BR/><BR/>sheesh.rob!https://www.blogger.com/profile/17556471244882205031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-34208439803821162902007-02-25T09:51:00.000-05:002007-02-25T09:51:00.000-05:00"Batman has a station on Pluto?"Future Batman did,..."Batman has a station on Pluto?"<BR/><BR/>Future Batman did, in that Issue One Million thing from the late 20th century. Eeesh, I never could wrap my mind around Superman living in the sun for 83000 years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-3651493922084824852007-02-25T09:32:00.000-05:002007-02-25T09:32:00.000-05:00Batman has a station on Pluto?Cool.Still, Johnny, ...Batman has a station on Pluto?<BR/><BR/>Cool.<BR/><BR/>Still, Johnny, I disagree with your point. How is have a station on Pluto or a megarod or a particle cannon is great if you're fighting a alien spaceship, but quite useless when fighting a Gotham crimelord. What are you going to do, incinerate all crime-infested neighborhoods with your orbiting satellite laser?Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-40292246979711732042007-02-25T08:42:00.000-05:002007-02-25T08:42:00.000-05:00How is Nightwing responsible for the end of Barbar...How is Nightwing responsible for the end of Barbara Gordon Batgirl? They're completely unrelated. And Jason Todd died because the writers made him an ass no one liked.<BR/><BR/>The only thing about saying this new Supergirl is mischaracterized is the fact that she is a NEW character. This isn't the same Supergirl that killed in COIE or the Golden Age one, so she can't be constrained to what those other Supergirls would do. What to follow DC, you have to follow the Crisis rules.<BR/><BR/>About Batman, it never seemed to occur to me that a man with a station on Pluto, a robotic Justice League, and the ability to single-handedly defeat Martians should have no problem facing a powerless crimelord like Black Mask. I just accepted it. The only thing that got to me was Batman's distrust of metahumans, since he was one of the first to join the post-Crisis Justice League.Jon Hexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13599387638866026637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-81021651472777081902007-02-25T00:59:00.000-05:002007-02-25T00:59:00.000-05:00Superboy Prime. A bad idea followed by worse writi...Superboy Prime. A bad idea followed by worse writing. He is supposed to be a parallel Kal-EL. In his origin he was raised by good people and had a good life. <BR/>I don't recall pre crisis Superboy going psycho when his parents died a horrible death from a disease. Now Superboy Prime is supposed to be DCs Hannibal Lecter. The Kryptonian Franchise has taken a beating the last couple decades.<BR/>*Gah* <BR/><BR/>My second is Hal Jordan. That storyline should have been Sinestro doing all the mass murdering and GL killing him for it in the end. GL was a soldier and him executing Sinestro would have been believable enough.<BR/><BR/> Oh how I loathed Infinite Crisis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-64929941051906860582007-02-24T22:36:00.000-05:002007-02-24T22:36:00.000-05:00Batman leaving for a cruise in OYL, because let's ...Batman leaving for a cruise in OYL, because let's face Batman is quite frankly Obsessed with fighting crime to the point of Mental illness, but he just decides to ditch Gotham, WTF.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-60530143451260404122007-02-24T21:02:00.000-05:002007-02-24T21:02:00.000-05:00Lots of interesting discussion here, but for now I...Lots of interesting discussion here, but for now I'll just second Captain Atom. Though it's kind of a weird case, as for me, he's only *ever* really been written "in character" by the Cary Bates/Greg Weisman team. Just about every other writer has seemed significantly "off" to me in one way or another.David Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985574193396205518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-24882675359571417982007-02-24T18:26:00.000-05:002007-02-24T18:26:00.000-05:00Superman wouldn't, Bill! That's what makes him Su...Superman wouldn't, Bill! That's what makes him Superman.<BR/><BR/>Mutt: great synoptic list, thank you.<BR/><BR/>I'm going to amend your list for my own version. I'm going to replace three. <BR/><BR/>Hal Jordan's heel turn<BR/>Emma Peel Wonder Woman<BR/>Batgirl's heel turn<BR/>Max Lord's heel turn<BR/>Superman kills<BR/>The Goddamn Batman<BR/>The Giffen Legion<BR/>Crabby Aquaman<BR/>Leslie Thompkins lets Spoiler die<BR/>Evil SkeetsScipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-79415509712196957462007-02-24T17:44:00.000-05:002007-02-24T17:44:00.000-05:00This won't mean much to most of you -- and certain...This won't mean much to most of you -- and certainly not to Scipio -- but I questioned the Forever People mini-series that implied that Mark Moonrider, the "leader" of the Forever People would essentially become evil. That mini-series stuck in my craw for many years (particularly since I liked other parts of it -- Donny as an adult writer who has never written the book he wanted to write about the FP and "the dark" in general as a villain) because of that mischaracterization. I am not sure exactly what JACK was trying to channel with the FP, but it spoke to me in a quite deep way (despite the sometimes awful dialogue) when I was a teen. <BR/><BR/>Oh, and I refuse to believe that Superman doesn't use his x-ray vision to look at girls naked. Who Wouldn't?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-18401699201363553932007-02-24T16:51:00.000-05:002007-02-24T16:51:00.000-05:00Writers and their companies have done all sorts of...Writers and their companies have done all sorts of things to reinvigorate--poke and prod their characters to make the books sell. As Erik Larsen has said though, the fundamental appeal of certain characters must always remain however many parameters are varied. <BR/><BR/>That being said, here's some LSH stuff that was all quite controversial at the time...<BR/><BR/><BR/>1. the death of Karate Kid in Legion of Super Heroes<BR/><BR/>2. Legionnaires vs. Legion of Super Hero....clones? <BR/><BR/>3. Shvaughn Erin...is a GUY? <BR/><BR/>4. Why is Braniac a fat guy with a beard???<BR/><BR/>5. OMIGOD they killed Blok!<BR/><BR/>6. Why is Shrinking Violet walking around naked with Lightning Lass?<BR/><BR/>7.huh. bouncing boy actually has USEFUL powers.<BR/><BR/>8.huh...Matter-eater lad actually has USEFUL powers.<BR/><BR/>9. Why does the LSH look like its being drawn by Jose Munoz?<BR/><BR/>10. So, wait..superboy helped to found the LSH, then he didn't, then there was a pocket universe, and then there wasn't?ChrisMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11784970666468925633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-30838936260606878792007-02-24T16:37:00.000-05:002007-02-24T16:37:00.000-05:00There's really only ONE controversy here: Fan enti...There's really only ONE controversy here: Fan entitlement vs. Publisher's rights.<BR/><BR/>Every story that's been mentioned here all boils down to that one. And that is the only one that's matters.James Meeleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15125466138669301618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-46593880033645794062007-02-24T16:02:00.000-05:002007-02-24T16:02:00.000-05:001. Dick Grayson becoming Nightwing, because it cau...1. Dick Grayson becoming Nightwing, because it caused a real mess that's still continuing. Dick Grayson being a wimp, Jason Todd being killed off because the fans didn't like him, Spoiler's death, Barbara Gordon being removed as Batgirl and being replaced unsuccessfully, etc...<BR/><BR/>2. Superman getting powered down post-Crisis.<BR/><BR/>3. The Legion post-Crisis.<BR/><BR/>4. The existence of the Vertigo imprint and segregating characters like Swamp Thing, Shade the Changing Man, and Doom Patrol from<BR/>the regular DCU (at least temporarily).<BR/><BR/>5. The Green Lantern Corps getting wiped out. I don't think Hal being removed and replaced was an irrecoverably bad decision, but eliminating the Corps neutered some of the charm of the Green Lantern "concept".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com