tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post1766130286434242679..comments2024-03-27T19:04:14.544-05:00Comments on The Absorbascon: Three's a CharmScipiohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-35437541553201947252008-06-12T18:28:00.000-05:002008-06-12T18:28:00.000-05:00Sky Father. Earth Mother. Dark Prince.They are in ...Sky Father. Earth Mother. Dark Prince.<BR/><BR/>They are in virtually every pantheon of gods people have ever created.The Mutthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09149977320388415139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-29843119207033591222008-06-12T18:13:00.000-05:002008-06-12T18:13:00.000-05:00it seems the inherent problem w supes/wondy/bats i...it seems the inherent problem w supes/wondy/bats is no one agrees which one is supposedly "truth" 'justice' and the 'american way' - obviously in the superior trinity of gl/flash/aquaman hal (pre-spectre) is the american way, whereas aquaman is justice and flash is truth ; <BR/>furthermore the anti-trinity of Black Manta and Dr Zoom with Star Sapphire would easily defeat The Trinity, (Black Manta as a Black Luthor, Zoom as a hyper joker, and Star Sapphire all powered up to WondereWoman levels) Yeah!David Weedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13875241394902488088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-86263284639232118152008-06-11T16:51:00.000-05:002008-06-11T16:51:00.000-05:00Justin, with the exception of Wally West, I was a ...Justin, with the exception of Wally West, I was a big fan of the next gen Trinity. <BR/><BR/>I did wish Kyle Rayner had been a bit deeper, but he was great in the Firestorm/Spider-Man/awed neophyte role. He grew into the obnoxious lefty role, which seemed tired. Or maybe that was just Winnick?<BR/><BR/>Connor Hawke had similar elements, but I thought he was less naive than culturally disconnected. He could have been the balance here.<BR/><BR/>Wally would have been more fun as the flakey conservative hypocrite of the 80's, but by the time of Kyle & Connor, he was a seasoned veteran with his own Speed Force Family. When not defined by his criticism of Kyle, he was twice as boring as Barry, with none of his charm.<BR/><BR/>I think the 70's Silver Age trio had/will again have a better dynamic, and hope Barry joins the Robinson Justice League to spotlight that. If you're going to anchor a DC team, you really need all three to make it work at its best.Diabolu Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04685199809207954223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-51683007637299522372008-06-11T08:19:00.000-05:002008-06-11T08:19:00.000-05:00You know, I'm generally not a fan of Wonder Woman ...You know, I'm generally not a fan of Wonder Woman being elevated to the same status as the World's Finest, but you- and a number of the commentators here- make some persuasive points. <BR/><BR/>I still don't think her character is as well developed (get your minds out of the gutter) as the other two, but maybe that's the point, to throw an X-Factor into the traditional Supes/Bats routine. I hadn't thought of it that way before.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-72072248932602126812008-06-11T00:15:00.000-05:002008-06-11T00:15:00.000-05:00FLD: I love the Flash/GL/GA sub-trinity, and I thi...FLD: I love the Flash/GL/GA sub-trinity, and I think its subtle significance is indicated by the fact that when DC made the Wally-Barry switch, Lantern and Arrow eventually followed suit in that exciting decade we call the '90s. And when they brought Oliver Queen back, it paved the way for the return of Hal and Barry. <BR/><BR/>There is, in fact, a beautiful symmetry to it:<BR/><BR/>Barry replaced - Hal replaced - Ollie replaced - (MORRISON JLA) - Ollie returns - Hal returns - Barry returns (?)<BR/><BR/>Ideally, either all three are next-gen heroes, or none of them are, it seems.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-56446647533198253072008-06-10T14:25:00.000-05:002008-06-10T14:25:00.000-05:00I always see Wonder Woman as a mediator between th...I always see Wonder Woman as a mediator between the extremes of Batman & Superman, so she has a role in the Trinity. I agree that she fits, and provides a "grey area" viewpoint. I don't see Batman & Superman as polar opposites, viewpoint-wise (method-wise, sure), but DC sets them up as such.<BR/><BR/>The problem is, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Flash, and at least two Green Lanterns could fill the same role. Maybe they're not as iconic as Wonder Woman, but they are all experienced heroes who have the respect of and a position between the Big 2. I like WW in that role, but I don't feel that makes her the only one or even the best one (I say pre-crazy J'Onn) to be the 3rd member. <BR/><BR/>I do see the Supes/ Bats/ WW Trinity as being full of possibilities, but they're mostly unrealized.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1329554720196113252008-06-10T13:20:00.000-05:002008-06-10T13:20:00.000-05:00"Just to clarify, I think Scipio's on the right tr...<I>"Just to clarify, I think Scipio's on the right track. At the end of this post, he lists a number of things the Trinity can be "about." That's the key, right there."</I><BR/><BR/>Sure, I'll agree that complex characters with long histories and many good stories can be "about" a great many things. But when I think of a character, there's usually some aspect of them that is pre-eminent in my mind; it's not to the exclusion of other aspects, just pre-eminent. Now what sticks in my mind may not be what sticks in anyone else's, but that's why God invented the Internet: so we can argue about whether the Martian Manhunter is "lonely survivor recovering from loss" or "versatile coach of less-experienced heroes".<BR/><BR/>There are lots of characters out there that don't have enough impact on me for me to have an opinion of what they're "about". I am not motivated to buy their comics.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-46253260466988357462008-06-10T09:08:00.000-05:002008-06-10T09:08:00.000-05:00Just to clarify, I think Scipio's on the right tra...Just to clarify, I think Scipio's on the right track. At the end of this post, he lists a number of things the Trinity can be "about." That's the key, right there.Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13984799425896501960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-40210420596971967082008-06-10T09:05:00.000-05:002008-06-10T09:05:00.000-05:00Trying to pin down what Wonder Woman is "about" ma...Trying to pin down what Wonder Woman is "about" may be too limiting.<BR/><BR/>One of the great things about Batman and Superman is that they can be "about" all kinds of different things, depending on who's writing them. They are both icons, but they gain richness from the fact that they "mean" different things to different people. <BR/><BR/>When Wonder Woman has a strong enough mythos to be iconic, yet still open to interpretation, then she'll be part of the trinity.Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13984799425896501960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-79225198786998408762008-06-10T08:59:00.000-05:002008-06-10T08:59:00.000-05:00My anti-Trinitarian argument is too long for a com...My anti-Trinitarian argument is too long for a comment, so I posted it on my blog.<BR/><BR/>The short answer, though, is that 4 is better than 3 because who the heck wants to read about a table that doesn't wobble?Ragtimehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10763066980980022901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-25028611388548662042008-06-10T08:22:00.000-05:002008-06-10T08:22:00.000-05:00Beautifully articulated as usual, Scipio. I like ...Beautifully articulated as usual, Scipio. I like the idea of Wonder Woman as Justice, it seems quite appropriate. I also like the idea of Wonder Woman as the third choice, the gray, to the dark and the light of Batman and Superman. <BR/><BR/>Interestingly, Justice is not Mercy, and frankly, Wonder Woman is the only one with the balls to dish it out.SallyPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05592635194271250605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-51884818724413539892008-06-10T07:59:00.000-05:002008-06-10T07:59:00.000-05:00Superman is restraint (because he is impressive fo...Superman is restraint (because he is impressive for what he chooses NOT to do): WOnder Woman is balance.Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-60307933546482068602008-06-10T06:08:00.000-05:002008-06-10T06:08:00.000-05:00Excellent analysis. I assume that when you mentio...Excellent analysis. I assume that when you mention focus, restraint and balance, that Wonder Woman is definitely restraint.<BR/><BR/>I just hope that Wonder Woman wasn't put in the Trinity in order to develop a sexual tension element. If it was then if moves from Trinity to Three's Company.running42khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11801790773966257216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-61188910643770659522008-06-09T23:56:00.000-05:002008-06-09T23:56:00.000-05:00P.S. The second DC Trinity is Flash/Green Lantern/...P.S. The second DC Trinity is Flash/Green Lantern/Green Arrow, and is very possible with Barry, Hal and Ollie all back amongst the living. There was a time Wally/Kyle/J'Onn could have semi-worked, but that's no longer true. You could also make a duo out of Aquaman and Martian Manhunter, but would anyone really want to?Diabolu Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04685199809207954223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-20271747007456983682008-06-09T23:46:00.000-05:002008-06-09T23:46:00.000-05:00I wanted to say I agree with most everything you s...I wanted to say I agree with most everything you said in both "Justice, Truth, and the American Way" and "Three's a Charm."<BR/><BR/>You know, "World's Finest" worked best as a trinity as well, but there the balance/reactive was Robin the Boy Wonder. <BR/><BR/>I haven't read Gail Simone's "Wonder Woman" yet, as I'm waiting for the trade. I hope she's doing a better job with Diana than most. I haven't felt like anyone's had a strong handle/angle on the character since the William Messner-Loebs run.<BR/><BR/>I've wanted to write "Sensation Comics" almost as much as "Wonder Woman" for years. Well, not almost, but a lot. I'm brimming.<BR/><BR/>Superman is the perfectly integrated, authority respecting, non-interventionist, polished god-amongst men.<BR/><BR/>Batman is the completely isolated paranoid vigilante tarnished man-amongst-gods.<BR/><BR/>Wonder Woman is friendly foreigner, accepting of other ways while espousing her own philosophy. She is respectful of authority, but deteriministic enough to collide with the will of god and man as needed. She is diplomatic, but will resort to violence to correct perceived wrongs. She is a demigoddess-- the controversial role model-- unattainable in form but not in ideal.<BR/><BR/>Trinity: Light. Dark. Contrast.<BR/><BR/>Finally, I like Despero, and placed him in my own villainous trinity (with Maxima and Vril Dox II.) Morgan LeFey has already been beaten by Wonder Woman and Superman seperately, and nevermind Riddler 2.0, so he's only one of the three to inspire trepidation.Diabolu Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04685199809207954223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-70686018454075790162008-06-09T21:27:00.000-05:002008-06-09T21:27:00.000-05:00More than anything, I look at the three this way:S...More than anything, I look at the three this way:<BR/><BR/>Superman - perfection of strength and virtue; the unattainable ideal.<BR/><BR/>Batman - mankind functioning at its best; the attainable ideal.<BR/><BR/>Wonder Woman - ... Okay, this is where it gets tough; Superman and Batman seem to have the two poles pretty well covered. So what is Wonder Woman in all this? Of late, she's been portrayed better than ever, as a diplomat and a warrior who offers to put down her arms even when victory is within reach. I like that, but what do I make of it? Perhaps it can be framed this way: Wonder Woman is about the <I>inspiration</I> to strive for an ideal, specifically the unattainable ideal.<BR/><BR/>Wonder Woman as an embodiment of inspiration. I think that more or less works. It doesn't cover huge portions of her character history, but then again, Batman wasn't always the master athlete / fighter / tactician, and Superman used to spend most of his time screwing with Jimmy Olsen's mind.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-89550261886159353002008-06-09T21:23:00.000-05:002008-06-09T21:23:00.000-05:00"the true trinity:green lanternflashaquaman"I'll a..."the true trinity:<BR/>green lantern<BR/>flash<BR/>aquaman"<BR/><BR/>I'll agree with you, David, that I would like to see those three also used as a trinity of their own. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps we can follow up on that in a later post....Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-64970966754159480782008-06-09T21:20:00.000-05:002008-06-09T21:20:00.000-05:00No, Wonder Woman is Justice.Superman is Truth.Batm...No, Wonder Woman is Justice.<BR/>Superman is Truth.<BR/>Batman is the American Way.<BR/><BR/>It's all in the linked post.Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-56588594409941827602008-06-09T20:56:00.000-05:002008-06-09T20:56:00.000-05:00Wonder Woman is "Truth". Huh. I thought Superman w...Wonder Woman is "Truth". Huh. I thought Superman would receive that tag and Wonder Woman would be given "The American Way". She works proudly for Uncle Sam and fights to ensure that we all live up to our ideals of harmonizing compassion with strength.<BR/><BR/>Sensation Comics is a rather provocative-sounding title... I like.<BR/><BR/>I wholeheartedly support cementing WW's place in the grand trio. Perhaps, in the distant future, when nearly all those possibilities have been explored, a fourth, fifth and so on may be added as the narrative complexities of the comic book form evolve over the decades.<BR/><BR/>But I'm still not sold on trying "Trinity". I tend to prefer the lesser gods (as it were). But I'm always down for a good yarn. No spoilers necessary, just tell me true- is it a morsel likely to compel one to return to the table for another course?<BR/><BR/>-Citizen ScribblerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-88567555026773133082008-06-09T20:48:00.000-05:002008-06-09T20:48:00.000-05:00the very problem with establishing the anti-trinit...the very problem with establishing the anti-trinity is how weak is joker/cheetah/luthor.. whereas an anti-trinity of dr zoom/BlackManta/Star Saphire makes so much sense it hurts, the possibilities are endlessssssDavid Weedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13875241394902488088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-2076244674330619442008-06-09T20:45:00.000-05:002008-06-09T20:45:00.000-05:00the true trinity:green lantern flashaquamanspace/a...the true trinity:<BR/>green lantern <BR/>flash<BR/>aquaman<BR/><BR/><BR/>space/air<BR/>land/time<BR/>water/sub-terra<BR/><BR/>Aquaman kills, Flash won't, tho he might mindwipe, green lantern would never<BR/><BR/>this trinity would destroy bats supes and wondyDavid Weedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13875241394902488088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-66500234790090049152008-06-09T20:37:00.000-05:002008-06-09T20:37:00.000-05:00I'm of two minds on it.While I enjoy the concept o...I'm of two minds on it.<BR/><BR/>While I enjoy the concept of these three getting into far flung adventures, it just feels as though I've already seen it? Pretty much every month in Justice League we have a sceen where these three get together and chat. Heck, thats all I can really remember them doing the first story arc (didn't they all show up and beat on Amazo at the end?).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-48069404736987833432008-06-09T20:02:00.000-05:002008-06-09T20:02:00.000-05:00I will give Trinity a chance, even though I'm so c...I will give Trinity a chance, even though I'm so completely over Bats. But then, the Supes/WW thing never works on its own,so that's another reason in favor of the three of them together.<BR/><BR/>On the other topics on the debate table, I like the Diana Prince persona, and I like that she's powerless -always the tv show fan - even though I'm not completely sure of the logic behind it with the current incarnation ( which even with retcons, I still consider the post Crisis Perez one ).<BR/><BR/>As for Sensation Comics, if that ever comes to be ( I really doubt it ) it's going to be Gail's merit and not Busiek's:even if Trinity is a blockbuster, no one will give Diana the credit, but the big, multi titled guys.Gus Casalshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09623081734326460781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-44994934564339398092008-06-09T19:41:00.000-05:002008-06-09T19:41:00.000-05:00As for the anti-Trinity, yes, it's not exactly wha...As for the anti-Trinity, yes, it's not exactly what one would expect. However, it's looking like it's going to be<BR/><BR/>a magical, otherworldly woman<BR/>a high-tech genius<BR/>and <BR/>an alien powerhouse.<BR/><BR/>It's hard to argue against that as an anti-Trinity!Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-52314335373340746172008-06-09T19:30:00.000-05:002008-06-09T19:30:00.000-05:00"I am *not* fond of the whole "Wonder Woman is Tru...<I>"I am *not* fond of the whole "Wonder Woman is Truth" business"</I><BR/><BR/>Indeed. If you read the post I linked to I think you'll see that matter in a different light... .Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.com