tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post115798082866565788..comments2024-03-27T19:04:14.544-05:00Comments on The Absorbascon: Descenting OpinionScipiohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-46387200637965432012011-11-27T18:40:29.161-05:002011-11-27T18:40:29.161-05:00This cannot have effect in fact, that is what I be...This cannot have effect in fact, that is what I believe.<br /><a href="http://progamesdirect.com" rel="nofollow">play hidden object</a> | <a href="http://freeridegamez.com" rel="nofollow">free ride games</a> | <a href="http://easygameplay.com" rel="nofollow">find easy games to play</a> | <a href="http://freegametop.com" rel="nofollow">gametop games</a> | <a href="http://bestworldgames.com" rel="nofollow">best free games</a>Rudolphnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158273763498296292006-09-14T17:42:00.000-05:002006-09-14T17:42:00.000-05:00Oops. That oughta be "you're."Oops. That oughta be "you're."Rob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07331286524477806963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158249168457921662006-09-14T10:52:00.000-05:002006-09-14T10:52:00.000-05:00Ah, so all your saying is that it's not possible f...Ah, so all your saying is that it's not possible for DC to disagree with you about the quality of this idea because, in your opnion, their standards are so low. Got it.Rob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07331286524477806963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158230386018371752006-09-14T05:39:00.000-05:002006-09-14T05:39:00.000-05:00but this is fiction, and in fiction, events are (m...<I>but this is fiction, and in fiction, events are (more or less) convoluted by design.</I><BR/><BR/>And most especially comic book fiction. A certain amount of suspension of belief is prerequisite for our hobby. Most of us don't seem to have a problem believing that a bath in electrified chemicals would bestow super-speed, rather than third-degree burns or blood cancer, not once but twice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158230261270652572006-09-14T05:37:00.000-05:002006-09-14T05:37:00.000-05:00It seems to me that you're saying that DC should a...<I>It seems to me that you're saying that DC should abandon any sort of quality control because they've published bad stories in the past.</I><BR/><BR/>How the heck did you interpret that?! All I said was that I don't buy the possibility that the Hex pitch was axed because of quality or poor characterization because so much worse stuff has made it through, that's all. I guess some people have a talent for hearing what they want to hear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158228223265886932006-09-14T05:03:00.000-05:002006-09-14T05:03:00.000-05:00Let's say I lose my big toe in an accident and the...<I>Let's say I lose my big toe in an accident and then discover that my great-great-grandfather also lost his big toe as well, should I then conclude that I was fated by birth to someday lose my big toe?</I><BR/><BR/>but this is fiction, and in fiction, events are (more or less) convoluted by design.Adam!https://www.blogger.com/profile/10129783455815709787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158182552504552252006-09-13T16:22:00.000-05:002006-09-13T16:22:00.000-05:00Oh, by all means, lets fight about Green Lantern.S...Oh, by all means, lets fight about Green Lantern.<BR/><BR/>Sigh.<BR/><BR/>I don't really understand the point of your arguement, Total. It seems to me that you're saying that DC should abandon any sort of quality control because they've published bad stories in the past. That doesn't seem wise or justified. If all stories were held to the standard of Emerald Twilight, i don't think I'd be buying comics anymore.Rob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07331286524477806963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158177299022138032006-09-13T14:54:00.000-05:002006-09-13T14:54:00.000-05:00Green Lantern, and marvelling at how Hal Jordan wa...<I>Green Lantern, and marvelling at how Hal Jordan was kind of a jerk and a control freak, even from the beginning. The characterization has essentially followed that same straight line with a few detours right into the present day.</I><BR/><BR/>It's a straight line from jerk and control freak to mass murderer?!?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158176772282468172006-09-13T14:46:00.000-05:002006-09-13T14:46:00.000-05:00I figured I had better weigh in on the side of Jon...I figured I had better weigh in on the side of <A HREF="http://jonahhex.blogspot.com/2006/09/not-going-in-for-hex-change-operation.html" REL="nofollow">Jonah</A> and explain why I don't like the idea of the Hex-Dent story.Dwayne "the canoe guy"https://www.blogger.com/profile/05434021701274164909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158172648186542622006-09-13T13:37:00.000-05:002006-09-13T13:37:00.000-05:00"consistent character in these books is an illusio..."consistent character in these books is an illusion"<BR/><BR/>I really have to disagree. Actually, it's interesting; just recently, I was reading Showcase Presents: Green Lantern, and marvelling at how Hal Jordan was kind of a jerk and a control freak, even from the beginning. The characterization has essentially followed that same straight line with a few detours right into the present day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158169678618326672006-09-13T12:47:00.001-05:002006-09-13T12:47:00.001-05:00Alex and Ariel -- you raise good points about dest...Alex and Ariel -- you raise good points about destiny and Two-Face. In comics, of course, even random chance is an illusion -- it's all written and drawn for one reason or another. The closest thing to random comics ever got was the <I>DC Challenge</I> in the 80s.<BR/><BR/>And Cole, when you wrote:<BR/><BR/><I>This doesn't mean that whomever is running things now isn't making an attempt, based on their understanding of the properties under their control, to ensure that those properties stay on model--whatever that model is this week.</I> <BR/><BR/>...you completely mirrored the response I was going to write to totaltoyz, so thanks. I think that last clause explains a lot, too -- "It seemed like a good idea at the time" explains a lot of what gets published, and "it seems like a bad idea" can always be followed with an unspoken <I>right now.</I>Rob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07331286524477806963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158169657021208812006-09-13T12:47:00.000-05:002006-09-13T12:47:00.000-05:00comment 52. I'm starting to make a habit of this. ...comment 52. I'm starting to make a habit of this. Maybe I can be the new booster gold.Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04279131827560250011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158166706362071092006-09-13T11:58:00.000-05:002006-09-13T11:58:00.000-05:00"it undermines Two-Face's theme of random chance w..."it undermines Two-Face's theme of random chance with the insinuation of predestiny."<BR/><BR/>Yes, but couldn't that be the sad irony of Two Face? That he considers life to be random, when in fact it IS controlled by destiny?<BR/><BR/>It certainly would support the overarching theme of DC Comics in general about destiny vs. free will, starting from the giant hand at the dawn of time to Destiny of the Endless' speech about when a man looks forward on his life's garden, it is a series of winding paths, when he looks back, it is a straight line.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158164192369911102006-09-13T11:16:00.000-05:002006-09-13T11:16:00.000-05:00I think Howard Chaykin wrote that JSA story. It wa...I think Howard Chaykin wrote that JSA story. It was odd, to say the least, with the working class JSAers and wealthy professionals eating at different tables, barely associating with each other. There could be something to that idea, but it would have to be played with far more subtlety--more subtlety than a short story could allow.<BR/><BR/>I thought it was interesting for the unintentional way it pointed out that consistent character in these books is an illusion. While the companies go to various lengths at various times to impose consistency, characters will ultimately do what their plots require. The ability to withstand widely divergent variations is part of the better characters' strength. While I thought the JSA story failed, I didn't sweat it because it was clear Chaykin was just telling a one-off short in a one-shot anthology. The need for obesiance to continuity was low.<BR/><BR/>IIRC, that story was also utterly out of continuity in that it had Jim Gordon as a beat cop in WW2 (another pointless coincidence surprise reveal), something that makes no sense for Earth 2, Earth 1 or any other continuity outside this one story.<BR/><BR/>At any rate, it's inarguable that many, many bad stories--including a bunch that contradict basic, shared assumptions about certain characters--have seen the light of day. This doesn't mean that whomever is running things now isn't making an attempt, based on their understanding of the properties under their control, to ensure that those properties stay on model--whatever that model is this week.Cole Moore Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09041638617925724048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158162136868632982006-09-13T10:42:00.000-05:002006-09-13T10:42:00.000-05:00Invoking Emerald Twilight: the comic book version ...<I>Invoking Emerald Twilight: the comic book version of Godwin's law </I><BR/><BR/>I thought that was the Spider-Clone?<BR/><BR/>Seriously, there are other examples. A few years ago there was a one-shot "Anthology title" (which I suspect was a bunch of file stories with no other home, but I have no proof of that) that I think was called <I>The Golden Age 80-Page Giant</I>, I may be misremembering the title. Anyway, in this collection there was a JSA story, pretty much the JSA members at a dinner party. Somebody wearing Dr. Mid-Nite's costume was spouting a lot of classist, elitist garbage. It can't have actually been Dr. Mid-Nite because that's 180 degrees in the other direction from Dr. Mid-Nite's established character. (I'm talking about the original Dr. Mid-Nite here.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158161302219306272006-09-13T10:28:00.000-05:002006-09-13T10:28:00.000-05:00i don't see using jonah hex as dent's forefather a...i don't see using jonah hex as dent's forefather as undermining his chaotic/chance theming: <I>"what are the odds?</I> - well, not good, but that's how the chips fall sometimes. that is kind of beautiful. if two-face really IS about the full embrace of duality, the other side of the chance coin IS that there is an order to things. harvey represents the human who is struggling against the monster (chaos). wether two-face knows about hex or not, i think this is an interesting idea to the reader of two-face stories about the philosophical underpinnings of the character - are things ordered (harvey), are things are what we make them (batman), or that things just happen (the monster).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158158552496024812006-09-13T09:42:00.000-05:002006-09-13T09:42:00.000-05:00Invoking Emerald Twilight: the comic book version ...Invoking Emerald Twilight: the comic book version of Godwin's lawCole Moore Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09041638617925724048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158157186184260402006-09-13T09:19:00.000-05:002006-09-13T09:19:00.000-05:00But whatever the case, both of these points are in...<I>But whatever the case, both of these points are in the eye of the beholder, and just because you think certain stories are bad, or out of character, doesn't meant that DC knowingly intended them to be so when they were published.<BR/><BR/>You see that, right?</I><BR/><BR/>Not in all cases, no. If a story is published depicting a character acting absolutely opposite to the way that character has been depicted in every story up to that point, that is bad characterization. It's not a matter of opinion, it's the very definition of bad characterization.<BR/><BR/>By example I cite what was done to Hal Jordan to make room for Kyle Rayner. That was such bad characterization that DC eventually back-pedaled on it and said he was being mind-controlled by Sinestro the entire time; just about the biggest cop-out in memory.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158157036988265362006-09-13T09:17:00.000-05:002006-09-13T09:17:00.000-05:00But Cole does such a story twist automatically hav...But Cole does such a story twist automatically have to imply that Harvey Dent was fated to become Two-Face? Couldn't it just be chocked up to coincidence? Especially since neither character's deformities were the result of biology, but were instead caused by acts of violence committed upon them by others. Let's say I lose my big toe in an accident and then discover that my great-great-grandfather also lost his big toe as well, should I then conclude that I was fated by birth to someday lose my big toe? Or could it best be explained as just one of those weird coincidences that life is full of?<BR/><BR/>In the end I'm all in favour for DC going ahead with stories like this for the simple reason that it sounds like a lot of fun and though the idea of these kind of links between characters does defy credibility, I would argue that it does so to no more degree than the idea of a wealthy millionaire who spends his days fighting crime while dressed as a big bat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158152161607719642006-09-13T07:56:00.000-05:002006-09-13T07:56:00.000-05:00I would totally buy a JLA consisting exclusively o...I would totally buy a JLA consisting exclusively of Henry Boltinoff characters: Super Turtle, Cap, Chief Hot Foot, Moolah the Mystic, Charlie Cannonball, Freddie the Frogman, etc.<BR/><BR/>And for the record, I think Scipio's Aug. 1 essay on Two-Face is one of the smartest, most insightful pop comics analyses I've ever read. Like Rob S., I have trouble squaring the conclusion from that essay, "Two-Face's obsession isn't good vs. evil, it's justice versus random fate," with the kind of biological determinism the Hex story would introduce. Wouldn't that tip the scales between choice and fate, muddying Two-Face's decision (or abdication thereof) to become a monster? Then again, I haven't thought about Two-Face anywhere near as much as Scipio.Cole Moore Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09041638617925724048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158151138552718392006-09-13T07:38:00.000-05:002006-09-13T07:38:00.000-05:00Speaking as one of the evil feminists, I've strang...Speaking as one of the evil feminists, I've strangely managed to resist making a fuss about Scipio's continued digs. <BR/><BR/>He might equate rape with a kick in the crotch (in fact I thought that was intended to be a joke in poor taste when I first read it), he might blame a handful of bloggers for DC editorial decisions, but I'm not about to start a flamewar over it. I just find myself reading less and less of what a year ago was my favourite comics blog.Marionettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06985975073151200366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158150928070448922006-09-13T07:35:00.000-05:002006-09-13T07:35:00.000-05:00Regarding bloggers and the weight of their opinion...Regarding bloggers and the weight of their opinions:<BR/><BR/>Judd Winick still writes Outsiders, Nightwing is still a mess, JMS still writes Spider-Man, etc. <BR/><BR/>Bloggers (and those who post on blogs) may be well-informed, exceptional writers, but I think <BR/>DC and Marvel do not regard their opinions as indicators of what stories they should publish. Sales charts seem to be the deciding factor, and some of the most maligned stories of the last few years have sold the most.<BR/><BR/>Starting a campaign to see the Hex story published, however: that is using one's blog to incite action, rather than review or complain. Cool.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158148406901617462006-09-13T06:53:00.000-05:002006-09-13T06:53:00.000-05:00If you pitched Super Turtle joining the JLAI would...<I>If you pitched Super Turtle joining the JLA</I><BR/><BR/>I would <I>totally</I> buy that comic. Though only if it was written by Grant "The God" Morrison.<BR/><BR/>And I find it funny that the biggest reaction over this blog entry is about censorship and not the line highlighted in the first post.<BR/><BR/>Ah, bloggers. You've gotta love 'em.S Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14356657498264383431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158122615217323102006-09-12T23:43:00.000-05:002006-09-12T23:43:00.000-05:00Oh, and as for the original story idea? It sounds ...Oh, and as for the original story idea? It sounds pretty cool, but I think Steven's right when he (<I>way</I> up there... keep scrolling...) said that it undermines Two-Face's theme of random chance with the insinuation of predestiny.Rob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07331286524477806963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1158118840894140302006-09-12T22:40:00.000-05:002006-09-12T22:40:00.000-05:00William, maybe it's bound to incur wrath from "cer...William, maybe it's bound to incur wrath from "certain readers and bloggers" because it's actively baiting them, by speciously attributing DC's desicion to their complaints, on no evidence?<BR/><BR/>I think the rest of your complaints about patronizing, condescending fanboys are misplaced and veer into "all opinions are equally valid" territory which negates discussion--and of course, if you bother to back up/think through your opinion, you're a "know-it-all" anyway. Totaltoyz asked for my definition of censorship. I gave it to him. He asked for alternate possibilities. I listed some. I don't think rob s., dwayne or I have been out of line or some kind of Fanboy Rampage cariactures. (Well, my extra credit question was kind of mean.) If you don't like how I write, what can I say? Don't come to my birthday party.Cole Moore Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09041638617925724048noreply@blogger.com