tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post114678929475798118..comments2024-03-27T19:04:14.544-05:00Comments on The Absorbascon: May 1976Scipiohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-35652249972871491902022-11-03T12:39:09.233-05:002022-11-03T12:39:09.233-05:00"You seem to be suggesting that we're bet..."You seem to be suggesting that we're better off now"<br /><br />Honestly, I am not certain how I could have made my point any CLEARER. Criticism of contemporary comics is fine; it's welcome; it's HIGHLY NEEDED. However, criticism of contemporary comics is undercut if one is blind to the flaws of comics of the past. I have often pointed out that there are things that past comics did well that contemporary comics do poorly: maintaining a consistent (if sometimes small) supporting cast; resisting decompression; narrative structure; minimalist art. But I have never ever ever let that blind me to the fact that the comics, even ones that did those things well, could also still be ACHINGLY STUPID or just plain bad for entirely other reasons, and in ways that would probably not happen today (e.g. poor art, absurd situations, inconsistent characterization, sexism and other -isms). Unfortunately, many critics of whatever is wrong now must always insist that things used to be better generally, when that's not actually relevant; all that matters is: something is wrong now.Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12112155718721908876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1168794019635910462007-01-14T12:00:00.000-05:002007-01-14T12:00:00.000-05:00I kind of think everyone's correct in this thread:...I kind of think everyone's correct in this thread: old DC comics were generally pretty abyssmal, and yet they didn't take themselves so seriously as to forget it's just kid's stuff.<BR/><BR/>The big problem, I think, was that the olden-days writers (or, perhaps more importantly, the editors) had never actually spent any time living among humans on planet earth, and as a result had little concept of mood or dramatic tension. I'm going to cite Gerry Conway as one of the worst offenders, and as perhaps the clearest example I will point out the JLA/JSA crossover where Mr. Terrific was murdered. The JLA satellite is trashed, one of the founding members of the JSA has been possessed by an evil spirit and is on the run, and a revered member of the JSA has died a violent death ... and how does Gerry Conway finish the issue? By 1) Superman declaring that the day was a "success" and 2) the final panel containing a Superfriends-style joke with lots of canned laughter. I don't know whether those were the editor's idea or Gerry Conway's; either way, any modern competent editor would have insisted on a different ending.<BR/><BR/>I'm seeing plenty of love for Cary Bates, but he was basically Bob Haney without the awesomeness. Bates is the reason Barry Allen had to be killed off in CoIE: Barry Allen had been so poisoned by Bates's handling of his title (thirteen years), it was difficult to draw a distinction between the character and how he was being consistently written. I could go on and on about how tone-deaf Bates was with regard to human emotions, but two observations:<BR/><BR/>1) A scant nine issues after Barry found out Iris had been murdered, and immediately after the story arc wherein he brought Thawne to justice, Barry was on the make again, saying of his new neighbor Fiona Webb: "Yiyiyi! I must be hallucinating ... she's like something that walked out of a dream!" He then proceeded to clumsily hit on her, and kept it up until he finally got through to her. To read all the post-Crisis handling of Barry, you'd think he mourned a hell of a longer and more deeply than he actually did.<BR/><BR/>2) In the final issue of the "Flash" title, Iris returned to the 20th century for a while, by possessing a middle-aged banker who looked like the Monopoly guy. Nothing wrong with that (other than the fact that Iris has <I>stolen someone else's body</I>). But when Barry starts realizing that the Monopoly guy reminds him of Iris and starts talking in slightly gooey fashion to him ... ew. Bad enough that you've got the mental violation of the poor shmuck whom Iris is inhabiting (which Barry seems to have no problem with), but now there's this undertone of a possible super-speed physical violation.<BR/><BR/>And of course Bates's escalation of Barry's powers, to the point where you could blow him up and scatter his atoms through the time stream, but he'd reassemble himself atom-by-atom over time and be as good as new. When you've overpowered a character to that degree -- and you've created a standard where his powers are always up to any ridiculous task -- there's nothing left to do with the character except insert him into situations involving a Shakespeare-like understanding of the human psyche. Which, again, was not Bates's strong suit.<BR/><BR/>That said, Denny O'Neill was the Geoff Johns of his day, revamping just about every major DC character. Does he get enough love for that? A lot of it didn't work at the time (Superman / Wonder Woman), and a lot of it hasn't held up 30 years later (Green Lantern / Green Arrow), but I admire his ambitions and I am grateful for his successes (Batman).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1147149032912336262006-05-08T23:30:00.000-05:002006-05-08T23:30:00.000-05:00Batgirl had already retired from costumed adventur...Batgirl had already retired from costumed adventuring when the Joker paid his "visit."<BR/><BR/>Barbara could well have decided she had more to offer as Oracle than a costumed hero without being crippled and possibly raped.<BR/><BR/>For whatever reason, however, writers never feel that's "realistic."Marc Burkhardthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06949686463975572297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1147142400313225412006-05-08T21:40:00.000-05:002006-05-08T21:40:00.000-05:00>especially after reliving the delicious nostalgia...>especially after reliving the delicious nostalgia via the JLU animated series.<<BR/><BR/>The JL series, while being a lot of action, also has a huge continuity within its universe that is the hallmark of the modern age. The season finale of season 1 plays with the series finale. In addition the entire Cadmus arc, spanning well over a season indirectly, was aimed towards much older audiences.<BR/><BR/>The animated series is both fun and challenging.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1147142178739246222006-05-08T21:36:00.000-05:002006-05-08T21:36:00.000-05:00I'd have to care about the Green Lantern Corp for ...I'd have to care about the Green Lantern Corp for Kyle Rayner to be "mine." I'm much more of a fan of John Stewert from the JL animated series. So if I have a GL it's him.<BR/><BR/>And its simple as to why Batgirl wouldn't grow up. It's hard to break a cycle without breaking the cycle in a harsh way, and if I'm not mistaken The Killing Joke was retrofitted to be cannon, it wasn't originally intended that way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1147103428160099642006-05-08T10:50:00.000-05:002006-05-08T10:50:00.000-05:00>>I just know that I could do without a DC Univers...>>I just know that I could do without a DC Universe in which Batgirl was crippled and then sexually molested.<<<BR/><BR/>>Persoanlly what she became (Oracle) is much more satisfying than what she would have stayed as Batgirl.<<BR/><BR/>Here's the thing: I have no problem with Oracle as a character concept, but the <I>process</I> through which Barbara Gordon became Oracle is another matter. <BR/><BR/>"Watchmen" was a great series precisely because it was a metatextual commentary placing the long-johns cliches into a more realistic setting. But when the <I>actual</I> long-johns stories begin to resemble "Watchmen," I take issue. <BR/><BR/>Growing up, Batgirl was very much the character you see on that "Batman Family" cover; in fact, I bought that very comic. From my perspective, "my" Batgirl wasn't just killed, she was crippled and molested to become "your" Oracle. <BR/><BR/>Similar thing happened to "my" Hal Jordan during the process of creating "your" Kyle Rayner. It wasn't enough to retire Hal, he had to be stripped of his character and his honor and mutilated beyond recognition in order to make way for the new guard. (And yeah, I know about Parallax, but as far as I'm concerned, Hal was murdered in "Emerald Twilight.")<BR/><BR/>And who says that Batgirl couldn't eventually have become a more "satisying" character ("satisfying to whom?" is another question that really can't be answered here) with the right writer?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1147066736680930392006-05-08T00:38:00.000-05:002006-05-08T00:38:00.000-05:00I remember loving JLA #130 as a ten year old. The ...I remember loving JLA #130 as a ten year old. The interior art was surreal and creepy, with that disturbing amalgam creature having resulted from a teleporter mishap. When I think "DC Comics" or "World's Greatest Superheroes", this is the time period I have in mind. As Ken S. just pointed out above, there were great comics coming out in the mid 70s, and I miss them, especially after reliving the delicious nostalgia via the JLU animated series.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046658194357950772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1147032871968937882006-05-07T15:14:00.000-05:002006-05-07T15:14:00.000-05:00Best comic blog post of 2006 so far...or at least ...Best comic blog post of 2006 so far...or at least of 1976. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1146952548677204672006-05-06T16:55:00.000-05:002006-05-06T16:55:00.000-05:00>I just know that I could do without a DC Universe...>I just know that I could do without a DC Universe in which Batgirl was crippled and then sexually molested.<BR/><BR/>Persoanlly what she became (Oracle) is much more satisfying than what she would have stayed as Batgirl.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1146940503276644892006-05-06T13:35:00.000-05:002006-05-06T13:35:00.000-05:00At first I thought that Karate Kid cover said "The...At first I thought that Karate Kid cover said "The Undies". <BR/><BR/>Sorry about that. Carry on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1146928830440815662006-05-06T10:20:00.000-05:002006-05-06T10:20:00.000-05:00If I can find enjoyment in reading Superman Chroni...If I can find enjoyment in reading Superman Chronicles, Teen Titans Showcase, Watchmen, Identity Crisis, AND Aquaman: Sword Of Atlantis... do I have to give up my Internet pass?<BR/><BR/>I worry that I don't enough snark to hang out with the cool kids anymore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1146923921248795612006-05-06T08:58:00.000-05:002006-05-06T08:58:00.000-05:00"Cary Bates (Grant Morrison before there was Grant..."Cary Bates (Grant Morrison before there was Grant Morrison" <BR/><BR/>That's a brilliant analogy. And don't forget that Cary Bates wrote himself in as a JLA/JSA villain, the same way Morrison appeared in ANIMAL MAN.<BR/><BR/> I will also stand up for most of the run of SSOV. First, it brought back the Fourth World characters which was vitally important to me in my early teens and I loved learning about all sorts of obscure DC characters I had never heard of before. <BR/><BR/>(Of course, this from a person whose earliest comic books have notes by me, written in them, creating new earths, with new characters for the JLA and JSA to meet.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1146921633959239462006-05-06T08:20:00.000-05:002006-05-06T08:20:00.000-05:00"Oh, wait; that's right -- there is no local comic..."Oh, wait; that's right -- there is no local comic book store. No matter where you live on the entire planet. There are no comic book stores, period."<BR/><BR/>Lambiek has been operating since 1968. I'm sure even in the US there were some comic book shops by 1976.Martin Wissehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04612094541576041276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1146891268992867852006-05-05T23:54:00.000-05:002006-05-05T23:54:00.000-05:00I'd just like to point out that I was commenting o...I'd just like to point out that I was commenting on this post <I>before</I> it was cool.<BR/><BR/>I think it's fair to say that I read a heck of a lot of back issues <I>and</I> current comics, and I tend to enjoy most of them, regardless of era. But I will say that while the new DC <I>may well</I> just be the old DC with better production values, production values do go a heck of a long way, especially when it involves (generally) less stilted and more natural and flowing dialogue.<BR/><BR/>I am, of course, excepting anything written by Brian Bendis from this argument.<BR/><BR/>Would I rather read <A HREF="http://www.comics.org/coverview.lasso?id=29514&zoom=4" REL="nofollow">a thirty year-old Batman story</A> than Infinite Crisis? Well, yeah, probably, if for no other reason than that one makes sense and the other's irreparably broken. But there are <I>dozens</I> of current comics I'd rather be reading than <I>both</I> of those. <BR/><BR/>I love the Superman Showcase madly, but I don't want stories <I>today</I> to follow that same formulaic wackiness all the time. And I love seeing a sustained and brutal beating in my comics, but I don't need it all the time. Fortunately, I can read <I>both</I>.<BR/><BR/>Is there a problem with comics today? Sure. But it's just a <I>different</I> problem than the ones that were around thirty years ago. Dismissing an entire and ill-defined "era" is pointless, seeing as there's always 90% of anything is usually not going to be very good.Chris Simshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08320487883818314339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1146882590004173752006-05-05T21:29:00.000-05:002006-05-05T21:29:00.000-05:00markandrew :You're a Bob Haney fan, so I'm pretty ...markandrew :<BR/><BR/>You're a Bob Haney fan, so I'm pretty sure we have common ground. He's one of my favorites, so that should tell you the kind of comics <B>I</B> enjoy.<BR/><BR/>I must admit, I didn't foresee this post exploding quite as much as it did.<BR/><BR/>(And count me in as a fan of SSOSV #1. It might not be high art, but it's silly fun. Some of the later issues, ah, not so much.)C. Elamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00284263547435956344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1146881438342573642006-05-05T21:10:00.000-05:002006-05-05T21:10:00.000-05:00Indianapolis, of all places, had a comic book stor...Indianapolis, of all places, had a comic book store in 1975. It was called (I think) Comic Carnival and Nostalgia Emporium ... and it was AWESOME.<BR/><BR/>I didn't live in Indianapolis. I lived in Middletown. Population: 2000. And I was 12 in 1976. <BR/><BR/>And SSOV #1 is a fucking awesome comic book. It was a great series. I still have every issue when so much of the rest of my collection has been sold off or left in storage.<BR/><BR/>I didn't read very many DC comics at that time. But Marvel ROCKED in 1976. And not just because The Black Panther was fighting the Klan!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1146870802186939802006-05-05T18:13:00.000-05:002006-05-05T18:13:00.000-05:00Oh geez. THIRTY year old Cary Bates idea. Sorry....Oh geez. THIRTY year old Cary Bates idea. Sorry. Won't happen again. <BR/><BR/>C. Elam<BR/>"I realize this is satire (how much so, not quite sure), and I'm not going to debate the merits of IC here because I have no vested interest in it."<BR/><BR/>Well, me neither, cause I haven't read it. I have a pretty good idea what I like, (And I do like an awful lot.) <BR/><BR/>Were older comics better written? I dunno. They tended to make more effective use of yer basic five part story structure or at least did so faster. There's also, well, kind of a sense of irony t'most of them that you only occasionally see now-a-days. <BR/><BR/>I'm completety incapable of taking the idea of a dude who dresses up in little black Jammy Jams 'cause his paretns got killed completely seriously. And I have trouble relating to material that requires me to take it completely seriously to derive full enjoyment. I like a side 'o irony with my silly-ass superheroes, thank you please. And some mondern comic writers, don't seem to be incapable of looking at the material as, well, kind of essentially ridiculous, or being able to distance themselves from the playthings of their youth enough to do the literary/thematic recontextualization thing which is the basis of art. (Sorta. At least for the purposes of this paragraph. :))MarkAndrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16956940483406724174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1146869675171081112006-05-05T17:54:00.000-05:002006-05-05T17:54:00.000-05:00I remember 1976 and that was not a good year at al...I remember 1976 and that was not a good year at all. <BR/><BR/>This was the era when DC almost went out of business. Where the Superman and Batman titles were seriously being considered for cancelation.<BR/><BR/>No one back then liked DC Comics and they weren't buying them. In fact, those comics sucked so much, that when DC did get better (1982 was a very good year and DC was better then Marvel), they still didn't sell. Superman and Batman were at the bottom of the comics list.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1146869443485025542006-05-05T17:50:00.000-05:002006-05-05T17:50:00.000-05:00Oh, but well-played sir. Well-played indeed.Oh, but well-played sir. Well-played indeed.C. Elamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00284263547435956344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1146869344701881892006-05-05T17:49:00.000-05:002006-05-05T17:49:00.000-05:00Good God, there weren't this many comments last ni...Good God, there weren't this many comments last night.<BR/><BR/><I>Ah. But have you READ any of them? I dare you!</I><BR/><BR/>Scipio, I've read most of them, or at least books from the same timeframe. And I really enjoy them! I know this is shocking, but it's true.<BR/><BR/>I realize this is satire (how much so, not quite sure), and I'm not going to debate the merits of IC here because I have no vested interest in it. HOWEVER, I will make the same point I made to Dorian on his blog, which is that I don't think comics are all that different than they were in 1976. They looker nicer, they read a bit differently, but they're the same thing as they were back then at their core. They've only changed as the world as a whole has changed. I'm not interested in new comics, and that's fine. I certainly don't begrudge you and anyone else who enjoys them - that's why I like to read different blogs!<BR/><BR/>I just wish we could end this old vs. new debate, because I find it tiresome and divisive. And I'm on the side that does the most bitching, so that should tell you something.<BR/><BR/>And DUDE, one look at my Blogger icon should prove I have a love for bad old comics. How many people even know who Lomax is, even in fandom?C. Elamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00284263547435956344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1146867536485377752006-05-05T17:18:00.000-05:002006-05-05T17:18:00.000-05:00And another thing, what the hell is up with the Mi...And another thing, what the hell is up with the Mish Mash Monster's spring arm?! Flash's legs, Hawkman's head, and a spring arm?! That's the kind of deranged creation Morrison would need crank, smack, and a week of straight sweat lodge fasting to even come close to imagining.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1146867289504360732006-05-05T17:14:00.000-05:002006-05-05T17:14:00.000-05:00Who in their drug-addled mind would want to go bac...Who in their drug-addled mind would want to go back to senseless seventies DC? It was like they asked different people what they wanted in a comic book and found any thin reasoning to put it all in one book. They made no sense, on purpose! While I feel like Marvel and DC are pulling out my low hairs making me buy twelve mini-series for what is essentially one storyline, I would rather spend my money on something the writer and artist actually took some time to work on than the afternoon ramblings of some pothead. <BR/>And P.S. Infinite Crisis not only gave us the truly spectacular creation of psycho Superboy-Prime, but also the inspired Rolling Head of Pantha, who managed to draw more fans than the rest of Pantha's body combined.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1146863376368145372006-05-05T16:09:00.000-05:002006-05-05T16:09:00.000-05:00"As everyone knows a comic CAN'T be any good unles..."As everyone knows a comic CAN'T be any good unless it's essentially a meta-comment on what other writers have done or it part 17 of a 32 part series all based on Beating you over the head with the same damn idea over and over and over... repeat 32 times."<BR/><BR/>Yes! THAT is what I want! <BR/><BR/>Every month!Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1146858298453817352006-05-05T14:44:00.000-05:002006-05-05T14:44:00.000-05:00I actually liked Batman Family from a few years ba...I actually liked Batman Family from a few years back. It had Bugg, Tracker, Doctor Excess, Athena, Freeway, Technician, Suicide King and Mr. Fun in it (a team of loser villains if I've ever heard one). It was done by John Francis Moore, who did the lamented Chronos series from the late 90's.<BR/><BR/>Blackrock came back last year in Mark Verheiden's Superman, in a completely forgettable and boring fashion.<BR/><BR/>And don't forget that a modern day version of Claw the Unconquered ran around with Primal Force, another unfortunate Zero Hour spin-off.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1146856239086790652006-05-05T14:10:00.000-05:002006-05-05T14:10:00.000-05:00According from Comics.org's search function, Bugg ...According from Comics.org's search function, Bugg and Dr. Excess are not, in fact, from that issue of Batman Family but from the 2002 miniseries Batman: Family. Touche! Also:<BR/><BR/>Blackrock was brought back somewhere during the incomprehensible swamp of Infinite Crisis crossovers as a boob war mercenary.<BR/><BR/>Claw the Unconquored is going to have his own series again (in an attempt to cash in on the popularity of Conan, just like last time), and has appeared in a crossover with Red Sonja.<BR/><BR/>So not only are comics now as bad or worse than comics from 1976, they're dangerously close to being recycled versions of the same bad comics! How long do you think it is before there's a Signalman revival?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com