tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post7961781185784508780..comments2024-03-27T19:04:14.544-05:00Comments on The Absorbascon: The Dawning of a New Age!Scipiohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-77630278802216107572010-11-21T00:15:31.240-05:002010-11-21T00:15:31.240-05:00I think that the Iron Age ended around 1996-1997, ...I think that the Iron Age ended around 1996-1997, between the collapse of the speculator market, which stanched the glut of grim 'n gritty stunt comics, Kingdom Come's plea for an end to the excesses of the early '90s, and Morrison's JLA reestablishing a lot of the tone and style of the Silver Age, but in a way modern audiences would think was cool, instead of amusingly ridiculous.<br /><br />I think 1997-2006 was a transitional era, when a lot of the elements that had grown prevalent in the Iron Age were being contrasted with the new, Silver Age direction that DC was trying to go in. The comics of that era seem to have a foot in both camps.<br /><br />Then, from 2003-2005, DC began to artificially make their universe as grim 'n gritty as it'd been around 1992, as part of the build-up to Infinite Crisis. Identity Crisis was the most famous part of that, but the OMAC Project and the other Infinite Crisis Prelude series' were also a part of that.<br /><br />This gets us to the beginning of Infinite Crisis, in which you have the Big Three reflecting on their respective failures. Infinite Crisis called the whole of the Post-Crisis DCU into question and contrasted it with the perceived "innocence" and "perfection" of the Pre-Crisis DCU. However, the series ultimately made the statement that the earlier eras weren't perfect either, although their belief in heroic ideals had a lot to offer the current era, even with its more explicit and "realistic" problems. I think it was then that DC espoused the idea of the "Platinum Age".<br /><br />Another hallmark of the Platinum Age is what Didio has called an attempt to return to the iconic versions of characters. This started even before Infinite Crisis, with the resurrection of Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps, which was in a sense a rejection of the Iron and Transitional Age Green Lantern status quo, and a reaffirmation of the Silver Age status quo. This continued with the resurrection of Barry Allen, as well as the new takes on Aquaman and Hawkman in Brightest Day. And while there are certain issues with all of those (I personally love the Flash stories since Barry's resurrection, but think it should never have happened. And we don't know what will be with Aquaman after Brightest Day.) it reflects an attempt by DC to merge the spirit of past ages with the storytelling conventions of the current age, one that I think has so far been on the whole successful.<br /><br />Personally, I think DC is on the right track with what they're doing with their heroes, for the most part. I've got bones to pick with the current state of the Bat-books,Now if only and I'd like it if we could get some really great runs on Superman and Wonder Woman (too bad Geoff Johns needs to sleep...), and I wish the current JLA wasn't basically a bunch of B-listers, but for the most part, things are looking better than they have for a while.Imitorarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03789589943902054909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-46276491511595628252009-05-05T12:25:00.000-05:002009-05-05T12:25:00.000-05:00I don't know what I'd call this new age, but I'd s...I don't know what I'd call this new age, but I'd say it started with the publication of DC: The New Frontier.The Mutthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09149977320388415139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-58173913321811146292009-04-28T10:33:00.000-05:002009-04-28T10:33:00.000-05:00And I'd call this age, "Neo-Silver."Me, I call it ...<I>And I'd call this age, "Neo-Silver."</I>Me, I call it the "Electroplate Age". A thin veneer of silver atop a duller, baser material. But that's just me.TotalToyzhttp://members.ebay.com/aboutme/totaltoyznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-38468817389416273742009-04-27T18:37:00.000-05:002009-04-27T18:37:00.000-05:00*a world THAT seems "less pure".*a world THAT seems "less pure".Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12531562821381017953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-77789533071964064512009-04-27T18:36:00.000-05:002009-04-27T18:36:00.000-05:00Citizen Scribbler:
I agree with you actually. Wha...Citizen Scribbler:<br /><br />I agree with you actually. What I see as Post-Modern in current comics is the notion of the re-use of past notions and ideas, and thus the creation of artifice.<br /><br />Geoff Johns is great at clarifying a hero's status as icon, which hearken back to the days when virtues were kept (more) sacred. However, those virtues, in society, simply aren't held as sacred in current society. That discrepancy is what I find post-modern; Our comics no longer represent whom we are, and they provide the illusion to what we want to see. By illusion, I don't mean the use of super-heroes and fantasy, but the values they stand for and, arguably, the same values we no longer enforce.<br /><br />So we revert our comics to a time of perceived purity (for instance, Scipio wrote a great piece about the mistaken reputation given to Barry Allen as Mr. Bland Nice-Guy) in reaction to, disputably, a world seems "less pure".Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12531562821381017953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-29115402433560216782009-04-27T17:08:00.000-05:002009-04-27T17:08:00.000-05:00There's such a wide variety of comics out ther...There's such a wide variety of comics out there I think it's hard to say we're in any age at the moment. Are Fables, Incognito, Kick A$$, Locke & Key, Invincible & Battle for the Cowl all of the same age?<br /><br />But if I had to say (and I'm not certain on the years) - Kingdom Come was a self-conscious comment ON the Iron Age so it shouldn't count. Instead, I'd go with Morrison's JLA. And I'd call this age, "<A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-bop_jazz" REL="nofollow">Neo-Silver</A>."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-58781618497089733522009-04-27T12:04:00.000-05:002009-04-27T12:04:00.000-05:00Joe Quesada became Marvel Editor-in-Chief in 2000,...Joe Quesada became Marvel Editor-in-Chief in 2000, and Dan Didio started editing at DC in 2002. It's fair to say those guys shaped the general tone of stories for each company (and copied each other sometimes).Brushwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13103181968128910654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-36526807318521815842009-04-27T10:23:00.000-05:002009-04-27T10:23:00.000-05:00McK: I'd put Marvel's entry to the Iron age with t...McK: I'd put Marvel's entry to the Iron age with the decision to start thinking of the Punisher as a hero, specifically with the first issue of his first mini-series in early 1986.Jeff R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10010142887152619337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-84724474972141701472009-04-27T10:19:00.000-05:002009-04-27T10:19:00.000-05:00Scip,
I think the age you're describing is the ag...Scip,<br /><br />I think the age you're describing is the age we SHOULD be living in. Honestly, there's great storytelling potential out there and the silver age nostalgia that we saw at the turn of the last decade seemed very promising. <br /><br />But I think the big publishers realized that they need to sell books and the way to do that is through events. This is the EVENT AGE, where every year brings two if not three giant awesome crossovers where nothing will ever be the same again except it will and you know but you buy the damn thing anyway. <br /><br />I think the relaunch of JSA and Morrison's JLA ushered in a brief few years at DC where they were doing the kind of grand heroic recalibration you're talking about. But DC made a killing off Identity Crisis and Marvel scored big with Disassembled and House of M. They couldn't help but put out one or two minis every year that were guaranteed to sell 100K copies. <br /><br />I've heard you talk about the Platinum age before... and I really believed in it for a while. I just don't believe in it anymore. But I will say this much... if you are enjoying your comics that much and if you are finding the Platinum age in the comics you're reading, more power to you.BIG MIKEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01365147999145372102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-62907380978390677762009-04-27T09:06:00.000-05:002009-04-27T09:06:00.000-05:00Just to clarify- I was trying to describe the use ...Just to clarify- I was trying to describe the use of the term "post-modern" in its' context as both an era signifier AND as a school of art theory. This double usage of the term "post-modern" (which is also self-related) is another reason why it fails our purpose of epoch-naming.<br /><br />-Citizen ScribblerCitizen Scribblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-46909462281677334812009-04-26T23:52:00.000-05:002009-04-26T23:52:00.000-05:00I'm going with 1995-1996, with Kingdom Come and Gr...I'm going with 1995-1996, with Kingdom Come and Grant Morrison's JLA. It seemed like around that time that the darkness was lifting; heroes started being heroic again. It was no longer unacceptably cheesy to pull the moon through Earth's atmosphere in order to start a fire to scare the white martians. Truth, justice, and the American way could triumph even over the darkness in the souls of a generation.<br /><br />-- Jack of SpadesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-8072339331740997692009-04-26T22:36:00.000-05:002009-04-26T22:36:00.000-05:00While I know that the "Gold, Silver, Bronze, and I...While I know that the "Gold, Silver, Bronze, and Iron" ages were based on the Greek "Ages of Man,' I think now that comic ages have gone beyond that model, it might not be a bad idea to use the seven metals of alchemy as an alternative:<br /><br />Gold, Silver, Copper (or Bronze), Iron, Tin, Lead, and Mercury.<br /><br />It seems to me that Tin, symbolic of Jupiter - austere and noble - is a particularly apt metal for representing the type of iconic heroism that is prevalent in comics in a post-"Iron" age.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-34487372592013031982009-04-26T21:19:00.000-05:002009-04-26T21:19:00.000-05:00My perspective is that heroes tried to make the wo...My perspective is that heroes tried to make the world a better place "in the large" in the Golden Age. Muckrakers, vigilantes, and social activists were the order of the day.<br /><br />The Silver Age is about defending society from outside threats, people who are against the status quo. The Comics Code <I>says</I> so.<br /><br />The Bronze Age is about making the lives of your neighbors better, a.k.a. "relevance."<br /><br />The Iron Age is about making your own life better, or just being a fascist jerk, a.k.a. "enjoying your powers."<br /><br />Today (I like Copper Age, myself), the rule of law is Family. Batman protects his friends rather than the abstract of Gotham City. The Justice League goes ballistic over Sue Dibny because she's <I>one of them</I>, their sister-in-law; they don't care about the millions of other rapes every day. Secret Invasion only works (as well as it can be said to work) because the characters involved are being hurt in their very homes. I trace that aesthetic back to the previous JSA series, making the old-timers avuncular patriarchs rather than leaders.<br /><br />At least, that's how I see it, and I can't help notice that certain key characters are reinvented (with one aborted attempt) within a year of the shifts I suggest, as well.Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-34564313153165626042009-04-26T17:18:00.000-05:002009-04-26T17:18:00.000-05:00As far as the applying the terms "modern" and "pos...As far as the applying the terms "modern" and "post-modern" as to comic eras, I don't feel it accomplishs our classification goals of delinating distict periods for the purposes of parlayance.<br /><br />One thing about post-modernist theory I've found is that it can be applied to any work of art. Homer's Oddessy can be called a work "post-modern" work as easily as can Bladerunner. All that is required is to recognize instances of such concepts as "schizofrenic temporality" or "spacial pastiche".<br /><br />What you wind up with is a never-ending cyclical duality of notions: modern/post-modern. It's the same thing with the concepts of classicism/romanticism. And this is a perfectly acceptable line of theory for culling more knowledge from the relationships within and between texts. However, it doesn't seem as useful at delineating distinct time periods classified by overall stylisitic changes in art and storylines.<br /><br />I hope some of that made sense and was sensible. I may have some knowledge on the subject, but I'm by no means the final authority on the such issues.<br /><br />-Citizen ScribblerCitizen Scribblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-57094784093261210042009-04-26T12:23:00.000-05:002009-04-26T12:23:00.000-05:00Justin: "Alternately, you could argue that DC's Ir...Justin: "Alternately, you could argue that DC's Iron Age was writer-driven (Moore, Miller, Gaiman, et al) but that Marvel's was artist-driven (McFarlane, Liefeld, the Image bunch)."<br /><br />Anyone ascribing to the perceived style difference between DC and Marvel (including myself) would find the above statement both plausible and insightful. One is plot-driven, the other character/appearance-driven.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12531562821381017953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-62952486325500606862009-04-26T00:40:00.000-05:002009-04-26T00:40:00.000-05:00McK: Perhaps Marvel starts with "Mutant Massacre" ...McK: Perhaps Marvel starts with "Mutant Massacre" (also 1986)? It's one of the first big X-Men-driven crossover events, it has a high body count, and the fallout eventually turns the Silver Age Angel into the Iron Age Archangel.<br /><br />Alternately, you could argue that DC's Iron Age was writer-driven (Moore, Miller, Gaiman, et al) but that Marvel's was artist-driven (McFarlane, Liefeld, the Image bunch). That would put it a little later, maybe around 1988 that they started coming to prominence.Justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16490957677766912068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-84003078948799422422009-04-25T22:38:00.000-05:002009-04-25T22:38:00.000-05:00"I agree, 1985 seems like a good transition point ..."I agree, 1985 seems like a good transition point into the Modern Age, and (imo, moreso at DC) we are now in the Postmodern Age."<br /><br />That brings up an interesting point... when did Marvel enter the Modern/Iron Age? DC's entry is obvious: 1986 (end of Crisis, beginning of Man of Steel, DKR, and Watchmen), but what's Marvel's entry? You could say Secret Wars in '84 (thus pre-dating DC), but aside from the failed New Universe line I can't think of another "clean break" for Marvel...Michael Xavierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06695972107679935809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-79534425640654489132009-04-25T17:12:00.000-05:002009-04-25T17:12:00.000-05:00@Ray:
You too the words right out of my mouth. I ...@Ray:<br /><br />You too the words right out of my mouth. I think what we are really dealing with is greater society's culture, and the way in which it influences creativity. Now, that sounds too obvious to write, but one cannot assign nomenclature to the various (and subjective) comic book style ages without acknowledging that the writers themselves are living in the Postmodern Age.<br /><br />I agree, 1985 seems like a good transition point into the Modern Age, and (imo, moreso at DC) we are now in the Postmodern Age.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12531562821381017953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-80538313267869685782009-04-25T13:50:00.000-05:002009-04-25T13:50:00.000-05:00Justin, I was just thinking something similar; an ...Justin, I was just thinking something similar; an early Robinson Starman issue implies that the JSA executes cult leader Rag Doll. Therefore, the sunny or corny stories of Fox, et al. conceal a gritty reality of violence and moral uncertainty. Not in my superhero comics, thanks very much.Dougienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-82856185193090790582009-04-25T13:29:00.000-05:002009-04-25T13:29:00.000-05:00"How about using James Robinson's 1993 publication..."How about using James Robinson's 1993 publication of "The Golden Age" as a milepost?<br /><br />Or do you just see it as a harbinger of the mood shift away from Iron?"<br /><br />Well, honestly, I see it as squarely part of the Iron Age. Depressing, unheroic takes on Golden Age heroes?<br />Very Iron Age.Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-71408600663953052212009-04-25T13:05:00.000-05:002009-04-25T13:05:00.000-05:00Somebody correct me because I am missing a point. ...Somebody correct me because I am missing a point. I have a little comprehesion of the artistic movement of Modernism and Postmodernism. Modernism is a rejection of fantasy and idealism in favor of absolute realism. Modernism deconstructs the image of the hero and nobility for the triumphs and tribulations of commonality. Postmodernism takes the cleared ground to reconstruct the missing fantasy and idealism in original ways. Modernism then reacts to the illusion of Postmodernism by reasserting itself. Modernism and Postmodernism are continuing aspect of the same concept. I thing a good short hand for that concept is Modern. In my mind, comics from 1985 on have been following that cycle and it is appropriate to call it the Modern Age.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10216973941059771829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-69872215980902786512009-04-25T12:49:00.000-05:002009-04-25T12:49:00.000-05:00How about using James Robinson's 1993 publication ...How about using James Robinson's 1993 publication of "The Golden Age" as a milepost?<br /><br />Or do you just see it as a harbinger of the mood shift away from Iron?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-80534626286474889182009-04-25T10:03:00.000-05:002009-04-25T10:03:00.000-05:00I'm more interested in the term "hybris", personal...I'm more interested in the term "hybris", personally. I'm going to use it as a term for those overly prideful about their new Prius.<br /><br />HC<br /><br />PS- On topic, I think Starman was maybe a preview of the Platinum Age, as the things that were actually moving books at the same time were totally Iron. But the writers, editors and publishers who supported Starman, the new JSA, Marvels, etc were definitely the ushers for the new Platinum Age, no?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-29640250502460665552009-04-25T09:48:00.000-05:002009-04-25T09:48:00.000-05:00Scipio,
The great Superman Through The Ages site ...Scipio,<br /><br />The great Superman Through The Ages site calls the current post-Infinite Crisis Superman "The Mercury Age" for similar reasons - it's resemblance to Silver (Mercury was once called "Quicksilver" back in the day). I think the current Superman is the best example of the "synthesis" continuity - the post IC Superman has elements of Silver Age, Byrne, Birthright, Donner films, etc. Morrison has been barking up the same tree with his Batman run as well, pulling long-forgotten stories out of the mothballs.<br /><br />Jacob,<br /><br />Great assessment. What's interesting about the Morrison JLA is that while it did return to big heroic ideals as opposed to pouches and armor, Morrison still had to deal with various 90s garbage (Electric Superman). That's why I've listed that as an early "tremor" to the Platinum/Mercury Age, like Starman, Kingdom Come, Marvels, and Astro City. And I definitely see this Iron Age ending "gradually" and two distinct "schools" (Waid-Busiek-Ross-Morrsion vs. Bendis-Millar), much like Renaissance art (did I just compare comics to Renaissance art? Yes, it appears I did).Michael Xavierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06695972107679935809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-41157001824855924032009-04-25T07:33:00.000-05:002009-04-25T07:33:00.000-05:00"Azrael, the Batman who wanted to be an Image char..."Azrael, the Batman who wanted to be an Image character."<br /><br />LOL! Nice one.Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.com