tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post3182318711894905867..comments2024-03-27T19:04:14.544-05:00Comments on The Absorbascon: Defending HerculesScipiohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-75329355192753847692017-01-08T17:34:58.881-05:002017-01-08T17:34:58.881-05:00Hercules did rape one woman I could find Deianira....Hercules did rape one woman I could find Deianira.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-51198393975541617062016-07-14T20:53:06.276-05:002016-07-14T20:53:06.276-05:00George perez is a very political guy. Big time lib...George perez is a very political guy. Big time liberal. That's made very clear in his wonder woman run. A serious anti military vibe ran through his book , but everything he did in the book revolved around his gay fixation. That includes the rape in issue # 1.L wintershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00502380341741038390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-73421568456324591082008-01-30T16:44:00.000-05:002008-01-30T16:44:00.000-05:00That doesnt really changed the wrong Perez did to ...That doesnt really changed the wrong Perez did to this character in particular. <BR/><BR/>Zeus was known to do that. Then again, no one would retaliate for spreading the seed. <BR/><BR/>Heracles didnt. And thats why (Marston) or Perez take, makes no sense whatsoever. More, it weaknens the perspective that in order to empower Women you have to depower Men. <BR/><BR/>And that doesnt work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-59004805837050937812007-11-18T03:41:00.000-05:002007-11-18T03:41:00.000-05:00The Perez revamp was glorious, a brilliant reinven...The Perez revamp was glorious, a brilliant reinvention of a character who, despite her iconic status, had usually been pretty half-baked in the execution, at least after the Marston kinkfest era.<BR/><BR/>Yes, the Amazons were victims who built their strength, independence and strong moral code after having suffered a horrible crime. Um, so's Batman. Tony Stark? Used as slave labor in a Vietnam prison camp, with a potentially fatal coronary injury. Hawkman and Hawkgirl? Murder victims. Daredevil? Crippled. Lots of adventure characters come out of tragedies. And while the Amazons' involved <I>sexual</I> victimization, it was not lurid in presentation, not used for cheap angst in the present day, and not excessively referred to.<BR/><BR/>Also, Greek myth? Maybe the Amazons weren't raped, but Zeus and other gods were pretty free with the sexual assault, don't forget, so it's not out of bounds for Perez to have acknowledged some unflattering context to the gods of the Amazons, to have set them as victims in a mythology where women were very often victims, and then raised them to heroic status from that environment.<BR/><BR/>I like that Perez's version acknowledged the injustices women had suffered over the years, but presented Diana as the strong, healthy and, at the start, innocent child of the beautiful society those women built in contrast. Also, why had the Amazons been portrayed as turning their backs on "Man's World"? Perez chose to acknowledge the historic sufferings of women in eras when they had little or no rights, rather than gloss over that or invent some unrelated reason. To me, that added texture, and I welcomed it because it was not dwelt on -- it was literally all in the past -- and was in Diana's background, but not part of her personal experience.<BR/><BR/>I agree that comics so often treat women badly and casually impose (often sexualized) suffering for cheap drama ('fridging) or misogynist thrills (cough-Tigra-cough), but George Perez's Wonder Woman, which made Etta Candy a strong woman who won Steve Trevor, gave us Julia Kapatellis as a realistic older woman who was not designed as a supermodel, and Vanessa, who was a gawky and likable girl rather than any kind of tarted up fantasy figure, is not such a book.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-79055883073653707672007-10-18T09:41:00.000-05:002007-10-18T09:41:00.000-05:00Hey Scipio, wanted to get in touch with you about ...Hey Scipio, wanted to get in touch with you about a movement to give comic books for Halloween.<BR/><BR/>I couldn't find an e-mail for you or any other way to contact you with additional details, but the relevant website is:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.comicspace.com/comics4halloween/" REL="nofollow">Comics4Halloween</A>Squashuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14665419613561138127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-48578786917546117362007-10-18T07:59:00.000-05:002007-10-18T07:59:00.000-05:00I seem to recall a few Batman stories in the 70s w...I seem to recall a few Batman stories in the 70s where the Shadow was almost treated like an Elder Statesman. Not that I've seen the Shadow in any DC stories lately.Brushwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13103181968128910654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-29343898946517481202007-10-17T21:31:00.000-05:002007-10-17T21:31:00.000-05:00No, the "Elder Statesman" is someone who used to f...No, the "Elder Statesman" is someone who used to fill a role similar to the Dynastic Centerpiece. Alfred is a Civilian Companion (technically, he's an evolved Fat Funny Friend!), and Commissioner Gordon is a Civilian Authority.Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-5238250719334377282007-10-17T21:01:00.000-05:002007-10-17T21:01:00.000-05:00Wouldn't Alfred or Commissioner Gordon be the Elde...Wouldn't Alfred or Commissioner Gordon be the Elder Statesman for the Batdynasty?<BR/><BR/>*delurks*<BR/>J.C. "W.S. Asian Boy"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-27669769089411304462007-10-17T18:15:00.000-05:002007-10-17T18:15:00.000-05:00Kal-L has gotta be the elder statesman in the Supe...Kal-L has gotta be the elder statesman in the Superman dynasty. Assuming he comes back from the dead, of course.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-72855686529044728922007-10-17T15:48:00.000-05:002007-10-17T15:48:00.000-05:00If Hercules/Herakles can please please please fill...If Hercules/Herakles can please please please fill what<I>EVER</I> billet in the DCM.WW that was vacated by that embarassingly claremontesque smoochy-woochy douchebag Trevor, I'm down with it! NO MORE TREVORS !!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-89643115435388224922007-10-17T10:43:00.000-05:002007-10-17T10:43:00.000-05:00Not every dynasty is going to have every "slot" oc...Not every dynasty is going to have every "slot" occupied, for variety's sake, if for no other reason. I would consider those slots empty in the Batman and Superman dynasties.<BR/><BR/>While no character permanent occupies the Elder Statesman slot in either dynasty, there have characters who have loosely and temporarily done so for particular stories (such as Alan Scott, who has done so for both Batman and Superman).Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-51152708105860961312007-10-17T10:10:00.000-05:002007-10-17T10:10:00.000-05:00Apologies if you've answered this before, but who ...Apologies if you've answered this before, but who would be the elder statesman in the Bats & Superman dynasties? Or are they special cases since they've (almost) never handed down their cowls to a new gen?Audiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12014886402102923551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-36513674434460759572007-10-17T09:29:00.000-05:002007-10-17T09:29:00.000-05:00You're welcome, Kit, and thank you for speaking up...You're welcome, Kit, and thank <B>you</B> for speaking up and out.<BR/><BR/>We should acknowledge that Geoff Johns did portray Hippolyta in just such a free and equal sexual relationship (with Wildcat), when she was Wonder Woman.Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-69485358952438017142007-10-17T02:30:00.000-05:002007-10-17T02:30:00.000-05:00First of all *de-lurk* thank you Scipio for the ho...First of all *de-lurk* thank you Scipio for the hours of entertainment that you have brought not only myself but my friends (also heroclix and comic book nuts) as we've sat around discussing your articles.<BR/>As a woman who reads comics I have also despaired at my geeky sisters reading every bad thing that happens to a female character as women in fridges, but this particular situation got my goat for the exact reasons you've mentioned, the concept that is impossible to have a strong female character without her being a product of man, WW was always a reaction to man in the same way the original amazons were a reaction to the ancient Greeks, but the recent re-contextualizing has led her to victim status, which is just icky.<BR/>It does amuse me that the DC universe will allow an elder stateswoman like Hippolyta to be drugged and raped, but not to have a free and equal sexual relationship, which would have made more sense in the story up to that point, (in my opinion anyway).<BR/>I agree, that although Bats and Supes do compliment WW, they have their female equivalents, and therefore saying that WW doesn't need one is a cop-out, it just means that they don't want to put in a male hero specifically junior to WW.<BR/>Anyway, thanks again Scipio, none of the guys will even talk to me about WW anymore.<BR/>:)<BR/>kit fAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-35876143567453084712007-10-17T00:53:00.000-05:002007-10-17T00:53:00.000-05:00I just can't picture Hercules raping anyone. Xena ...I just can't picture Hercules raping anyone. Xena on the other hand...Michael Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01455879088769484151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-19981155666884132582007-10-16T22:41:00.000-05:002007-10-16T22:41:00.000-05:00Exactly, John.Exactly, John.Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-84088610629257319442007-10-16T22:31:00.000-05:002007-10-16T22:31:00.000-05:00Batman and Superman can't be members of the Wonder...Batman and Superman can't be members of the Wonder Woman dynasty because they have their own dynasties to head. As I understand Scipio's system, dynasties don't overlap like that, rather, the rest of the dynasty forms supporting cast to the head of the dynasty.<BR/><BR/><BR/>John BilesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-8142320054808509972007-10-16T19:44:00.000-05:002007-10-16T19:44:00.000-05:00But don't Batman and Superman complement Wonder Wo...But don't Batman and Superman complement Wonder Woman in the Male role you stated?<BR/><BR/>If Wonder Woman is Strategic, then Superman is Tactical Force.<BR/><BR/>If Wonder Woman is the Warrior who fights openly, then Batman is the dirty tricks ninja.<BR/><BR/>If Wonder Woman is the Princess, then Batman is the aristocrat and Superman is the farm boy god.<BR/><BR/>If Wonder Woman is the permier Heroine of the DCU, then Both Superman and batman fill the roles of premier Hero (excepting Vibe of course).<BR/><BR/>I understand your defense of Herakles but in may ways, Wondy doesn't need an equal male counter part; she already has two.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-90986507296608095962007-10-16T18:34:00.000-05:002007-10-16T18:34:00.000-05:00Marvel's Hercules is basically a super-powered fra...Marvel's Hercules is basically a super-powered frat boy, but he doesn't use ruffies to get women. Unless Starfox counts.<BR/><BR/>I would like to see Hercules in a Wonder Woman-esque costume that he spins to get into. It would be hilarious.Jon Hexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13599387638866026637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-41756465768204065872007-10-16T17:30:00.000-05:002007-10-16T17:30:00.000-05:00Clearly coming in the next couple panels - the Ama...<I>Clearly coming in the next couple panels - the Amazons *do* get put in chains in Moulton's version of the story.</I><BR/><BR/>If they are being put into chains by Moulton, it just means it's after lunch.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-26931922273925210792007-10-16T15:27:00.000-05:002007-10-16T15:27:00.000-05:00Clearly coming in the next couple panels - the Ama...Clearly coming in the next couple panels - the Amazons *do* get put in chains in Moulton's version of the story.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09112215621728247275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-9876705628007944202007-10-16T15:14:00.000-05:002007-10-16T15:14:00.000-05:00Okay, I see the deception, but not the drugs, ensl...Okay, I see the deception, but not the drugs, enslavement, or rape.Derekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14326906935557548236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-8666061793225261982007-10-16T13:43:00.000-05:002007-10-16T13:43:00.000-05:00"So he made Hercules an Evil Male, who deceived Hi..."So he made Hercules an Evil Male, who deceived Hippolyta (et al.) with promises of love, then drugged, enslaved, and raped her."<BR/><BR/>That's pretty much how it went down in Marston's version too:<BR/><BR/>http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u313/JKCarrier/wonderwoman1.jpgAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-86470642348349562212007-10-16T13:40:00.000-05:002007-10-16T13:40:00.000-05:00Which hey I forgot was drawn by Perez too! I guess...Which hey I forgot was drawn by Perez too! I guess he's not ignorant of the different interpretation - maybe it's just an Earth-0 thing.Brushwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13103181968128910654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-43303486068708351202007-10-16T13:35:00.000-05:002007-10-16T13:35:00.000-05:00Well, the misunderstanding did make for a funny sc...Well, the misunderstanding did make for a funny scene between WW and Marvel's Hercules in JLA/Avengers.Brushwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13103181968128910654noreply@blogger.com