tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post116119883683488206..comments2024-03-27T19:04:14.544-05:00Comments on The Absorbascon: Conversation with Abner SundellScipiohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1161699235014958232006-10-24T09:13:00.000-05:002006-10-24T09:13:00.000-05:00Scipio's post also provides a fine eleventh axiom ...Scipio's post also provides a fine eleventh axiom to add to this list: "The Composite Superman is pure coolness, and should be used at every opportunity." I agree with both Abner and Mr. Garling.Harvey Jerkwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07118848012122050416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1161696772815768972006-10-24T08:32:00.000-05:002006-10-24T08:32:00.000-05:00I posted a long comment yesterday, which apparentl...I posted a long comment yesterday, which apparently got eaten.<BR/><BR/>But #4 (about the need for a "denouement" of some sort) seems to address a problem that was fairly common in his era for some reason.<BR/><BR/>You also see it in a lot of movies - for instance, a bunch of the Universal monster movies just end as soon as the monsters are killed or whatever. It seems really abrupt to modern eyes, which expect at least a brief shot of, e.g., the boring human hero and the girl embracing, or something of that sort. The later Hammer movies do this a lot as well.David Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985574193396205518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1161665727478570862006-10-23T23:55:00.000-05:002006-10-23T23:55:00.000-05:00That first axiom is a whopper, and I'd actually ca...That first axiom is a whopper, and I'd actually call it even more relevant in these "post-universal" days. Who wants to read a Batman who isn't still the total of heroic qualities, even out of his own strip? So it should be the jumping-off point of craft for modern longjohn writers to make sure that he is.<BR/><BR/>It's like Toth for writers! Very interesting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1161647591691561232006-10-23T18:53:00.000-05:002006-10-23T18:53:00.000-05:00Very cool piece, Scipio. I don't think I'd ever he...Very cool piece, Scipio. I don't think I'd ever head of Sundell before.Rob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07331286524477806963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1161625748352777822006-10-23T12:49:00.000-05:002006-10-23T12:49:00.000-05:00Eh. Didn't work. Well, just look for the Skateman ...Eh. Didn't work. Well, just look for the Skateman review at the old Gone & Forgotten site. <BR/><BR/>Y'know, if you're so inclined...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1161625503689952462006-10-23T12:45:00.000-05:002006-10-23T12:45:00.000-05:00Reading Axiom #4 and your response, I was immediat...Reading Axiom #4 and your response, I was immediately reminded of Neal Adam's <I>Skateman</I>, which provides an excellent <A HREF="http://ape-law.com/GAF/Page28/skateman10.jpg" REL="nofollow">example</A> of ending on a climax.<BR/><BR/>The review this image comes from notes how jarring the effect is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1161623118111276322006-10-23T12:05:00.000-05:002006-10-23T12:05:00.000-05:00Um, could you e-mail this list to Mark Millar, JMS...Um, could you e-mail this list to Mark Millar, JMS and the rest of the Marvel brain-trust?<BR/><BR/>It's amazing how many of these axions have been broken by recent writers of Spider-Man, and how much the character has suffered for it. Especially in terms of the supporting cast.Marc Burkhardthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06949686463975572297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1161622579544161612006-10-23T11:56:00.000-05:002006-10-23T11:56:00.000-05:00So, do you really read (or "look at" I should say)...<I>So, do you really read (or "look at" I should say) those 10 page shaolin showdowns that keep cropping up in your comics? I know I don't; I just keep skipping to the first part where the butt-whooping is over and actual plot advancement happens...</I><BR/><BR/>Comics may be a "visual medium" but too many writers & artists take that too literally. Bruce Lee movies were all about the kick-ass fight sequence, but translate those into comics and it loses its impact.<BR/><BR/>I sometimes scoff at characters who deliver an entire monologue during <I>one punch</I> of a fight sequence, but I need some development of the story to make the fight worthwhile.<BR/><BR/>With the exception of #1 these Axioms should be handed out to any writer taking a job in the comic industry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1161609268775551212006-10-23T08:14:00.000-05:002006-10-23T08:14:00.000-05:00Good point, Nimbus! Paul Dini does it the efficie...Good point, Nimbus! <BR/><BR/>Paul Dini does it the efficiently, old-style way. I think Johns does ... or at least can, when he wants to.Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1161604006002923642006-10-23T06:46:00.000-05:002006-10-23T06:46:00.000-05:00Sundellian Axiom 4...The denouement is the breathi...<I><B>Sundellian Axiom 4<BR/>...The denouement is the breathing spell...It does not need to be more than three or four panels, a page at most.</B><BR/><BR/>On the whole, most writers get this and do this, I think</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, except nowadays those "three or four panels" have been decompressed into whole books or perhaps even a mini series.S Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14356657498264383431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1161556069403215632006-10-22T17:27:00.000-05:002006-10-22T17:27:00.000-05:00"See these? These are the supporting cast for all ...<I><B>"See these? These are the supporting cast for all our principal heroes and they will remain so for the next fifteen years,"</B> you'd be surprised how much that would allow those characters, and the heroes they support, to grow in popularity. "Creator freedom" is overrated; I think writers become more creative when the editors give them clearer lines within which they may color (and I think the last several years at DC are evidence of this).</I><BR/><BR/>When I read this, I kept thinking that they may have actually done this with Batman's cast.<BR/><BR/>Editor: "Yes, you can write <I>Batman</I> but you can't kill off anyone."<BR/>Next writer: "Okay, fine, but Barbara's going to be in a wheelchair for the rest of her life."<BR/>Next writer after that: "Yeah? Fine. But that ain't slowing her down."<BR/><BR/>And so on. The end result is a strong, layered character with tons of fans and an important role in the DCU.<BR/><BR/><I>Axiom 6 is why I suspect that Gail Simone, who understands it, is secretly the illegitimate child of Mr. Sundell. It's also the basis for a story I desperately want to read: "Killer Moth and Cavalier Go Shopping At Wal-Mart".</I><BR/><BR/>I thought about this the last time you spoke about it. I'm convinced DC needs an entirely separate title to present "throw-away" stories in, maybe two or three an issue. "Killer Moth and Cavalier Go Shopping at Wal-Mart" would be great for that. And heck, they could bring Killer Moth's daughter from the Teen Titans cartoon shopping too. They could call it "Kitten has Two Daddies".<BR/><BR/>Of course, I wouldn't settle on anyone except Gail Simone to write.<BR/><BR/>Excellent post, by the way.<BR/><BR/>The Absorbascon reminds me of that <B>one</B> class you take in college that's not related to your degree. You take it because you love the subject matter, and you know the instructor loves it too. You go in week after week, never missing a class, eager to learn and dissect and discuss.<BR/><BR/>Thanks, teach.Derekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14326906935557548236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1161549969664645862006-10-22T15:46:00.000-05:002006-10-22T15:46:00.000-05:00Great article, Scip.Thanks for drawing my attentio...Great article, Scip.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for drawing my attention to Sundell's words and work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1161547486784441792006-10-22T15:04:00.000-05:002006-10-22T15:04:00.000-05:00>>A comic lead story which depends on melodrama ca...>>A comic lead story which depends on melodrama can be no stronger than its most melodramatic figure - therefore the importance of strong super-villains.<<<BR/><BR/>Boy howdy! In my book, the acid test for true-blue, real-deal, flat-out comic book supervillainy is the ability to use the term "accursed interloper" in a sentence, with a straight face. Mustache-twirling is optional. <BR/>And in all fairness, back in the day, that was what drew me to Marvel comics, and away from DC. Marvel villains didn't just rant a wicked monologue, they were actually up to stuff, bad stuff, sometimes even scary-bad stuff (by 60s standards). They weren't heisting the jewelery exposition with umbrella-motif nonlethal weapons or riding on giant robot chickens wielding oversized butterfly nets for catching Batman. No, indeed. These guys were standing on the battlements of their ancient castles, waving their arms and raving like loons, with giant thunderstorms raging in the background, as they unveiled their latest doo-hoo-hoomsday devices(!). You could just about hear the organ music swelling up! <BR/>The heroes, and sometimes even the writers, seemed to take these villains seriously; they were not just background noise for secret-identity pranks or sitcom misunderstandings. It actually seemed to matter that the Mandarin or the Red Skull get defeated. <BR/>Yeah, yeah yeah, that was a long, long time ago, of course, and many things have changed since then, but back in the day, there used to be only one place to go for serious villains.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com