tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post115513481334236930..comments2024-03-27T19:04:14.544-05:00Comments on The Absorbascon: Reclaiming or Purging the PastScipiohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155662514491362342006-08-15T12:21:00.000-05:002006-08-15T12:21:00.000-05:00Eep, looks like I'm late to the party. Ah well: al...Eep, looks like I'm late to the party. Ah well: although everyone's probably moved on to the newer, fine postings of the Absorbascon, I'd like to say a few things anyway.<BR/><BR/>"I'd personally get rid of Underworld Unleashed. A few villains who couldn't quite seem to make it to the big time got turned into some grosteqe and hideous monsters. Problem is, the majority of us seemed to like those villains."<BR/><BR/>I definitely agree with you about the villains, particularly Charaxes. But the reason I wouldn't want it to go away is because I think James Robinson was able to tie it into Starman brilliantly (without spoiling too much, let's just say Neron doesn't like taking "no" for an answer).<BR/><BR/>And that brings up another point I'd like to make. While post-Crisis DCU had its fair of bad stories, we also got quite a good few things out of it. As Scipio and I think someone else said, without "Knightfall" and the Darkstars, we wouldn't have gotten Kate's Manhunter armor. And as other people have said, without "Bloodlines," we wouldn't have gotten "Hitman." Without "Zero Hour," we wouldn't have gotten Starman and many of the JSA's current members. Without “Emerald Twilight”/Parallax/”Zero Hour,” we wouldn’t have Hal carry that guilt, which, again as others have said, makes him more interesting.<BR/><BR/>"Hear, hear. I've noticed that almost anyone could run these comic book companies better than the people who do."<BR/><BR/>"Really? Because I've noticed that only people who have no conception of the pitfalls and demands of the creative process make statements that so effortless combine equal measures of arrogance and ignorence. Personally I would love it if all the people who insisted they could do a better job running these companies actually were given the chance to do so, if only to see how quickly they turn into pathetic weeping shells of humanity haunted by the nattering voices of all the critics decrying them for their crimes against comics."<BR/><BR/>No disrespect to Bat-Mite, but I gotta agree with Allan on this one. I'm no comics professional, but I have no doubt that running a comic company is a very, very difficult task. Just imagine having to keep track of all the titles coming out, who's doing what, what needs promoting, etc., etc. Not to mention that with almost anything you do, there's almost always going to be a vocal group (usually on the Internet) that disagrees with what you've done and believes they can do a much better job than you can.<BR/><BR/><BR/>"The Superman/ Barda porno was actually softcore and is frequently shown at The Watchtower on movie night."<BR/><BR/>Actually, John Byrne says on his web site that he was trying to make it ambiguous enough so if you want to believe they did a porno film, you can, and if you don't want to believe they did, you also can. Haven't read the story myself yet, so I'm not sure if he made it as ambiguous as he believes.<BR/><BR/>"Hush was awesome, and should have stayed a one time Hush storyline, with like Hush having some kind of terminal cancer and dying wanting to kill his old friend."<BR/><BR/>Either that, or he should have been left unused for a much longer period of time.<BR/><BR/>"Anybody think with the sales of Infinite Crisis and 52 that we'll start to see a resurgence of big huge mega-crossover events like Invasion?<BR/><BR/>Is it possible they could do something like that better, knowing what they know now?<BR/><BR/>Yeah, me neither."<BR/><BR/>Haha, though I don't think we'll see any more mega-crossovers from DC for the time being. Dan Didio has said in interviews that he wants to stay away from them right now.<BR/><BR/>"imho, the biggest problem with the 'history' backups in 52 was that they merely recapped the comics that we'd already read, and told us just about nothing of the current history of the most recent incarnation of the DCU."<BR/><BR/>I would have liked it if the backups had covered what has changed in the history of the DCU, but I didn't mind the recapping of events seen in previous comics: after all, bringing new readers up to speed always helps ;)<BR/><BR/>"Scipio, I'm onboard with all your proposed changes, but you left out:<BR/><BR/>Emerald Twilight/Kyle Rayner/Parallax<BR/>Hal Jordan as Spectre<BR/>The Trial of Barry Allen<BR/>That post-New Teen Titans Teen Titans<BR/>Supergirl/Matrix, the Pocket Universe"<BR/><BR/>Dan DiDio also said in an interview that Linda Danvers/Supergirl/Matrix was a victim of the changes of New Earth... or the Superboy punches, I forget. Which kind of messes up a couple of Superman stories still in continuity.<BR/><BR/>Finally, concerning the original post: I think the problem with getting rid of all those stories and rewriting them/replacing them with something else is, aside from it being disrespectful to previous writers, it would have taken far too much work when a reboot could have solved the problem in a snap. Not that I wanted "Infinite Crisis" to reboot the DCU, mind you, but it would have been less confusing than making minor changes to the DCU’s past without showing how this may affect the past on a wider level. I’m starting to think that maybe the “History of the DCU” backups and Mark Waid’s “Secret Origins” backups should have been expanded to a “History of the DCU” miniseries. But I digress.<BR/><BR/>Back on topic: I also think that if the writers had spent all that time undoing/changing the past, they wouldn't have spent nearly enough time and effort on the present. Similarly, this is why I'm okay with DC explaining away most of its continuity glitches with "they were caused by Superboy-Prime punching the wall of reality." Some call it lazy, but can you imagine how daunting it would have been if the writers had tried to explain every single continuity error away individually? By the time they would have finished, there would no doubt be brand new continuity glitches and errors to fix.Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08806565171767967754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155661097097237832006-08-15T11:58:00.000-05:002006-08-15T11:58:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08806565171767967754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155508404916456512006-08-13T17:33:00.000-05:002006-08-13T17:33:00.000-05:00I agree with much of what you say, Tim. However, ...I agree with much of what you say, Tim. However, "the very same action was turned into an enormous ethical breach" isn't quite so.<BR/><BR/>It wasn't the memory wiping that was the breach of ethics, it was the personality-altering "magical lobotomies". Forcibly altering someone's persona is rather a step beyond just eliminating a bit a data.<BR/><BR/>That's not just my reading, but Brad's intention.Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155413678723597152006-08-12T15:14:00.000-05:002006-08-12T15:14:00.000-05:00Excellent! I blame you for all my hair falling out...Excellent! I blame you for all my hair falling out.Rob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07331286524477806963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155413631125341492006-08-12T15:13:00.000-05:002006-08-12T15:13:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Rob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07331286524477806963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155412725169705862006-08-12T14:58:00.000-05:002006-08-12T14:58:00.000-05:00...dangit, I was about to make the anonymous/anony......dangit, I was about to make the anonymous/anonymous point. Rob S. is now my archenemy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155308713649720792006-08-11T10:05:00.000-05:002006-08-11T10:05:00.000-05:00While I understand the sentiment (even if I don't ...While I understand the sentiment (even if I don't necessarily agree) this made me laugh:<BR/><BR/><I> I want Ray Palmer. I want to read about his post-Identity Crisis life, not some anonymous nobody. </I><BR/><BR/>Says anonymous.Rob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07331286524477806963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155306614353726392006-08-11T09:30:00.000-05:002006-08-11T09:30:00.000-05:00Kill Zero hour. It made as much sense in Jurgens'...Kill Zero hour. It made as much sense in Jurgens' backup to 52 as it did the first time around...that is to say, none. At least simplify it so that it makes sense. Likewise with the Armageddon storylines.<BR/><BR/>Millennium is just stupid, stupid, stupid! Sorry, Englehart.<BR/><BR/>Genesis is awful.<BR/><BR/>Superman Red/Superman Blue and ElectroSupes also have to be disposed of.<BR/><BR/>They've already gotten rid of Byrne's Doom Patrol, thank God.acespothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16117510484231244079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155302504183320742006-08-11T08:21:00.000-05:002006-08-11T08:21:00.000-05:00I hate Sword of Atlantis. It will take years to g...I hate Sword of Atlantis. It will take years to get the REAL Aquaman back. <BR/><BR/>I hate OYL. DC spent two years building up to a Crisis (pardon the pun) moment in the DCU--and they DUMPED IT. Ran from it, more like. We were denied all the DRAMA of the big guns' trying to reconcile their problems. There's no way any of this OYL stuff is as interesting as these issues SHOULD have been if they had continued the fallout of Infinite Crisis.<BR/><BR/>I hate the post-COIE DCU. By 1994 it was apparent that the Crisis revamp was in CHAOS. And it's only gotten worse since then. I can read new DC comics and enjoy them in isolation, but I cannot and dare not "invest" in any DC character because they keep changing all the time. I'm no big fan of Marvel, but their comics are a HELLUVA lot better than DCs right now. Read Captain America or Daredevil to see how to make a very old character with tons of continuity baggage INTERESTING without some kind of lame revamp.<BR/><BR/>I hate ROOKIE characters. I'm bored to death with newbie heroes and their "year one" struggles. Give me a VETERAN any day. "Year one" stories are only interesting AFTER we've come to care about them as regular heroes. <BR/><BR/>I hate REVAMPS. I hate the new Atom, new Aquaman, and the rest. If DC wants to sell a new character, INVENT one. Don't just STEAL one from yourself. I don't want a recycled "Atom" logo. I want Ray Palmer. I want to read about his post-Identity Crisis life, not some anonymous nobody.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155298172618741522006-08-11T07:09:00.000-05:002006-08-11T07:09:00.000-05:00The gloves in Manhunter's costume were Azrael's (M...The gloves in Manhunter's costume were Azrael's (Manhunter #15).<BR/><BR/>But I would happily buy her new gloves if it meant we could forget Azrael and Bane and Shondra Kinsolving's Magical Healifying Hands.Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155270754874961632006-08-10T23:32:00.000-05:002006-08-10T23:32:00.000-05:00And the King of Town would be underground in a box...And the King of Town would be underground in a box filled up with peeeeeeeeas...<BR/><BR/>Too much retconning annoys me. But I like a lot of what DC's publishing now. So I'm happy. Not without complaints, of course, but I think that, in the balance, the post-IC DCU is good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155254472889468152006-08-10T19:01:00.000-05:002006-08-10T19:01:00.000-05:00Why stop there? I think DC started going downhill ...Why stop there? I think DC started going downhill on page 2 of Action Comics #1. Why don't we roll it back to there?Matthew Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01007497367844755093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155243510193765502006-08-10T15:58:00.000-05:002006-08-10T15:58:00.000-05:00Scipio, I'm onboard with all your proposed changes...Scipio, I'm onboard with all your proposed changes, but you left out:<BR/><BR/>Emerald Twilight/Kyle Rayner/Parallax<BR/>Hal Jordan as Spectre<BR/>The Trial of Barry Allen<BR/>That post-New Teen Titans Teen Titans<BR/>Supergirl/Matrix, the Pocket Universe<BR/>Electro-Superman<BR/>Superman Red/Blue<BR/>Superman marrying Lois<BR/>The Crisis on Infinite Earths<BR/>Identity Crisis<BR/>Infinite CrisisPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046658194357950772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155231152566727222006-08-10T12:32:00.000-05:002006-08-10T12:32:00.000-05:00Nice one, jon...Nice one, jon...Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155228133797713332006-08-10T11:42:00.000-05:002006-08-10T11:42:00.000-05:00Man I'm just upset they kept Grace around on the O...Man I'm just upset they kept Grace around on the Outsiders. What's her point? She's like a tatto you got while vacationing somewhere and now you wish you weren't drunk enough to think a Smurf smoking a joint was actually a good thing to permanently attach to your ankle.joncormierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00865627865285684437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155227439992809412006-08-10T11:30:00.000-05:002006-08-10T11:30:00.000-05:00So it is the current Sword of Atlantis stuff you d...So it <I>is</I> the current Sword of Atlantis stuff you don't like. Fair enough. I guess what confused me was that you lumped it in with stuff to lose from the DCU's past, when this is something that hadn't occured until after New Earth formed.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I love the book -- it's one of my favorite OYL revamps.Rob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07331286524477806963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155222257877199592006-08-10T10:04:00.000-05:002006-08-10T10:04:00.000-05:00imho, the biggest problem with the "history" backu...imho, the biggest problem with the "history" backups in 52 was that they merely recapped the comics that we'd already read, and told us just about nothing of the current history of the most recent incarnation of the DCU. We know (or at least think we do) that Power Girl now remembers that she's the Earth-2 Supergirl, but do all the characters recall all their pre-Infinite Crisis lives, or only the ones that were really cocked up by their reboots (no wonder Hawkman hasn't really shown himself yet--the poor guy's probably off whimpering in some corner after suddenly remembering each of his revamps. And no wonder the real Aquaman is missing from "Sword of Atlantis"--forcibly recalling all his ill-conceived reboots must have put him into a coma!). The biggest dose of what the current "history" of the DCU must be at the moment seems to have been JLA #0, which seems to have put at least most of Wonder Woman's previous continuity back in place, at least as regards her JLA career, but other than that, remains pretty vague. I'm still hoping someone will explain why the Angelo Bend Angle Man who's been appearing in "Catwoman" lately bears absolutely no resemblance to any version of that character who's ever appeared in "Wonder Woman"--if all they wanted was a nutbar that kills people with drafting tools, why not create someone new, like "T-Square" or "The Protractor"?<BR/><BR/>-MindbenderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155216647219577402006-08-10T08:30:00.000-05:002006-08-10T08:30:00.000-05:00I agree. Even the stories immediately preceeding I...I agree. Even the stories immediately preceeding INFINITE CRISIS were interesting and had a lot of potential, but it was all swept up and, seemingly, thrown out, baby-with-bathwater style. <BR/><BR/>Whether or not New Earth turns out to be any good or not doesn't isn't really relevant to the fact that so much had to die so it could live.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155211209890775592006-08-10T07:00:00.000-05:002006-08-10T07:00:00.000-05:00Purely from a fashion standpoint, I appreciated th...Purely from a fashion standpoint, I appreciated the Eclipso crossover for redesigning the title villain from a Joker-faced dipwad with a pointy hat into a shirtless badass with a hood (replete with gigantoid Tim Burton Catwoman stitching on it). You have no idea how much I loathed the old Eclipso design.<BR/><BR/>But yeah, those "I Love The 90's" backups in "52" filled me with rage. Because I already knew most of that shit and I hated reading about it the first time.Jeremy Rizzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08480479249595700846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155205158853927072006-08-10T05:19:00.000-05:002006-08-10T05:19:00.000-05:00Anybody think with the sales of Infinite Crisis an...Anybody think with the sales of Infinite Crisis and 52 that we'll start to see a resurgence of big huge mega-crossover events like Invasion?<BR/><BR/>Is it possible they could do something like that better, knowing what they know now?<BR/><BR/>Yeah, me neither.Brandon Bragghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04767770844982082169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155198471353610072006-08-10T03:27:00.000-05:002006-08-10T03:27:00.000-05:00I'm agreeing on Knightfall, Hush and No Man's Land...I'm agreeing on Knightfall, Hush and No Man's Land and would like to add in War Games. Jp is right, the last 15 years of Batman were more or less unreadable. Let's just keep Tim and shift the rest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155187665760970992006-08-10T00:27:00.000-05:002006-08-10T00:27:00.000-05:00The Sword of Atlantis can never be washed from my ...<I>The Sword of Atlantis can never be washed from my brain, and that's the real tragedy.</I><BR/><BR/>Actually, Jonnie, I've been considering surgery...<BR/><BR/>Rob, search this blog and you'll find previous mentions of Sword of Atlantis.Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217376618860561999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155187580575603232006-08-10T00:26:00.000-05:002006-08-10T00:26:00.000-05:00Is is a ref to Peter David's Atlantis Chronicles?T...Is is a ref to Peter David's Atlantis Chronicles?<BR/><BR/>The only character whose continuity I'm really familiar with is Batman and I can see the appeal of doing away with KNIGHTFALL and HUSH. Really, everything over the past couple decades apart from the Moench/Jones run, and the arrival of Tim. However, I'd be happy if DC would simply learn not to create story arcs simply for gimmicky sales value or to twist long-standing characters simply for shock value (character distortion is NOT = character development). There's a lot of baggage I'm not comfortable with, but if we can just move on now and get on with the superheroics, I'm willing to let the 'past' stand as it currently is. <BR/><BR/>Oh, and, chu not 'ranting'; chu just 'opining'. :DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01544406500208399638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155182899714307722006-08-09T23:08:00.000-05:002006-08-09T23:08:00.000-05:00What's the reference to Sword of Atlantics? Does t...What's the reference to Sword of Atlantics? Does that refer to the new Aquaman series (it's the subtitle), or something else? Because I'm really enjoying the new series, and hadn't heard any venom directed at it before today..<BR/><BR/>RobRob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07331286524477806963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11737441.post-1155179346319418702006-08-09T22:09:00.000-05:002006-08-09T22:09:00.000-05:00If we take out Zero Hour, we lose the new Dr. Midn...If we take out Zero Hour, we lose the new Dr. Midnight, Al Rothstein as Atom Smasher, pretty much the whole JSA run. <BR/>The Superman/ Barda porno was actually softcore and is frequently shown at The Watchtower on movie night.<BR/>Extreme Justice was retconned before Infinite Crisis.<BR/>I like The Outsiders. Well, Batman's team and Nightwing's. And The Darkstars are needed as an example as to why Green Lanterns are needed. <BR/>Hush was awesome, and should have stayed a one time Hush storyline, with like Hush having some kind of terminal cancer and dying wanting to kill his old friend.<BR/>No earthquake, no Cain Batgirl. Then again, maybe that would stop the constant battles between those who enjoyed Robin:OYL and those who didn't.<BR/>The Sword of Atlantis can never be washed from my brain, and that's the real tragedy.<BR/>I like Eclipso: The Darkness Within because it started off Valor which I think was the best use of Lar Gand ever.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com